Chevy thread comments/age appropiate etc.

[Laura]

I gotta agree with everyone, that Chevy doesnt look great.
he needs a vet visit and medication:

At this point there doenst appear to be much a vet could do better. SOme of the best 'experts' are helping her along. Granted they cant touch or see the tort, but they have more expereince then most Vets.



d since nobody else wants to say it..I will. I think you're trying your best, and thats admirable, but I think you are in over your head.

I dont think many of us feel that way, " in over her head' part but thats ok if you do. but remember she is 15, just a kid.. so be gentle..



Chevy is a young sully and you're already having trouble.. its just gonna get harder from here.
I suggest giving Chevy to someone more equipped to handle a sully, and getting something smaller, and er for you to handle.

how much smaller can he get? Yes hatchlings are delicate, and maybe most people who are beginners, regardles of age should get one that is 1-2 years old to start off with. Many people have trouble with the babies.. thier age has nothing to do with it.

I'm not trying to be mean, or offensive, thats just my opinion.

It is offensive and I know its not how you meant it.. but its hard to 'hear' the tone in words on a screen..

Thats not what I was saying at all.
I said in my post that I think you're doing the best you can. But you're age is a factor.

How is her age a factor? She is a well educated, very informed 15 year old. Many adults out there or before they came here.. new less then she does or did. Granted, she doenst have a job to pay for bills, doenst drive, but MANY adults dont eitehr!


At some point Chevy is going to become someone else's responsibility. a 15 year old shouldn't have a sulcata any more then they should have a mastiff.

her parents are legally resonsible if it came down to that.. but not sure I get your point there...?

I tried to word my response nicely, and maybe instead of blowing up and being offended, you should respect the fact that I'm voicing my opinion in hopes of benifitting Chevy

She is 15,, and very upset about her very sick pet.. it could be said differently or maybe at a different time.. now is not the time..

I didn't say you can't take care of Chevy, I said you're having trouble, and that its only going to get harder. I didn't say your a bad mommy. but lets face facts.
Torts don't go to college. and 18 year old kids don't usually have a house with a yard.

many adults dont have a house with a yard, or they have one, but move, or get forclosed on.. Im 47 with a good job and 8 acers.. but there is no telling what the future holds.. my torts will outlive me, so should I not have them?


So how bout you show a little maturity, and instead of saying "How dare you.." maybe say" I see where your coming from but.."

I see where you are coming from, and I understand, but it really doenst matter.. age has nothing to do with it. How mature were you at 15? How many pets did you lose or have get sick? Emotions are high..

I meant no Disrespect, and again you're doing your best.. But this is a public forum, and I have every right to voice my opinion about the subject matter. You may not agree with it, and you have that right. But thats still what I think and I don't regret posting it.

There is a time and place for such..and on Chevys thread, was the wrong place..
I'll bow out now, because this is not what this thread is about, and I don't want to clutter the thread .
Best of luck with Chevy.

I hope you and yours have a great Holiday.. Be safe.. and I know you care, it just comes across a bit different..


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[Neal]

I think a young person any age can be more capable of caring for a tortoise of any species then some adults I know. She obviously willing and possibly capable of doing whatever it takes to make sure Chevy is better. You can't say that Chevy "needs" a vet visit without seeing the tortoise in person, yes the pictures show his eyes closed, but that alone doesn't indicate a need to go to the vet.

Why would Chevy become someone else's responsibility? Unless she has indicated in another thread, this doesn't make sense. If you mean that she will be someone elses problem when she goes to college...I go to college, I'm a full time student with a part time job, a family, a bunch of tortoises and I manage just fine.

I'm all for posting what you feel you need to say, so I don't think anyone expects kenny to take back what he said and he shouldn't. I for one just want to express how I feel to help (Marty333) get through this.

 

[Kenny]

Ok, I'm really not trying to start a Flame war here.

My point was this:
there are alot of tortoises available in the pet trade. Sulcata should be reserved (imo) for keepers who own property , not for children.

Yes I am a student. I do not own a sulcata.
and you maybe a student living with your parents owning a sulcata, and it may work. but you're also not 15.
at 15 you can't say with any certainty that you will go to college or not, and if yo do, yo can't say that you will stay home for college.
my point is that in one way or another Chevy will become the responsibility of her parents. Whether she goes away to college, or lives in an apartment. At 15 she has know Idea what her financial situation will be down the road.

Laura: I understand that things happen, and nobody is immune to financial troubles. But as a 47 year adult I'm sure you have "just in case " plans and at least a good understanding of where you will be in 5,10,15 years.

At no point in my response did I mean to disrespect or demean Marty.
I respect Marty for being as educated as possible at such a young age.
And I didn't mean to imply that she has caused Chevys problems.

Maybe my response was poorly timed ( although I do think I have a valid point)
but sulcata are a big responsiblity, and one imo to big for a 15 year old. (thats just my opinion)

I really didn't mean to anger anyone. I just think Marty would be better off with a smaller tort that could do well in smaller living quaters.
I live in a 1000 sq ft apartment and own a red foot and hingeback. but I planned to be able to have room for a large enclosure for each.

So, I formally and publicly appologize to Marty for offending her. It was not my intent. but I also still believe 15 is to young to own a sulcata.
I just wanted to voice an option. A sulcata is alot of responsibility and while its no big deal now, in a couple of years....

 

[Marty333]

Thank you Laura and Kenny even though you may not care about my forgiveness I forgive you. I understand I am just a teenager so my emotions are high. Also I am going to attend for sure my local college UCF (GOOO KNIGHTS!). I will be staying home because I have no desire to move due to my anxiety disorder. Hopefully when I graduate I would have saved up enough money to buy a small piece of land and a old little RV So Chevy can have all the land he desires. Also have a happy thanksgiving trip

 

[Kenny]

Thank you Laura and Kenny even though you may not care about my forgiveness I forgive you. I understand I am just a teenager so my emotions are high. Also I am going to attend for sure my local college UCF (GOOO KNIGHTS!). I will be staying home because I have no desire to move due to my anxiety disorder. Hopefully when I graduate I would have saved up enough money to buy a small piece of land and a old little RV So Chevy can have all the land he desires. Also have a happy thanksgiving trip

This has been my point Marty. "Hopefully". School is expensive, and plans never go exactly how they're supposed to.
I really hope you prove me wrong. but the point was simply that a Russian wouldn't become a burden, or get in the way.

I should have been more tactful, but the point remains the same.
However, my opinion/point doesn't matter right now.
Get Chevy taken care of. good luck.

I appreciate you maturity and forgiveness here, and sincerely do once again appologize for offending/angering/irritating you.

 

[Sweetness_bug]

Hi Kenny;

Hope you are doing well today. I have been following the thread for both this and with the other. I just wanted to add my two cents. You have a right for your opinion and to share it. Thats your opinion and thats fine. However mine varies a little so i would like to share my thoughts/opinion. Marty is doing everything in her pwer and has been since day one for Chevy. Yes she may be young, and not yet get the resposibility of a sulcatta tortoise. However Life is to short what ifs. I am a home owner with a large fenced in yard..But like anyone i can loose my home and any point in time due to financial issues. i can make other arrangements for my sulcata chewy however the person who agreed to take him may not aroung when that happens or what if they loose there home..or what if once they have him can not afford to feed him cause hes so large. You cant go by what ifs. You have to live life to your fullest and share and learn in expierences.

Everyone who has adopted a tortoise has every intention on keeping them and taking care of them and has some game plan for there life at the time they buy it. However life throws curve balls and sometimes plan change..Doesnt mean that they shouldnt have gotten a tort..they shouldnt have love it. Hopefully if they can no longer care for it they do the resposible thing and g find someone who can. ( ihave adopted all my torts and animals) Marty has shown no sign of not being able to care for the tortoise. She loves cheevy and you see that in her pics and her posts and deserves to have him. hopefully her plans work out and hopefully Chevy makes it. But a sick hatchling can happen to anyone not just a 15 year old. We all make mistakes and learn from them its called life and it makes us set new goals and helps us learn to do things differently. If no one took chances than alot of things in life wouldnt be here and it would be pretty dull.

I appreciate you apologizing to Mary about how your post came across. We all know your not a bad guy and people need to understand its a forum and everyone can post there opinion no matter how wrong or right. It makes for a great discussion.

Have a happy thanksgiving Kenny! Enoy your day and look forward to talking with you again soon

 

[Kenny]

I dunno, I geuss we can chalk this up to me being a planner.
I know that lives can change over-night, but I think that their still needs to be a plan in place. I think when purchasing/adopting a sulcata the consumer needs to thoroughly think through what owning one intails.
Not that a Russian doesnt take planning, but its a little more forgiving then a sulcata if plans were to fall through.

On a personal level; I would never consider owning an animal like a sulcata, until I had a home and financial stability.

I'd just like to add that I don't think this is about Marty anymore. It's really more about whether or not a teenager (in general)should have a pet that requires large property. and I don't mean that arguementatively.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

We are all entitled to our opinion but I am real sorry Kenny decided to express his at a point in Katerina's life when something she loves is in a life and death battle THRU NO FAULT OF KATERINA'S. Since she has joined TFO I have noticed how mature she is and have been in agreement with most of the advice she offers. She has become an active participating member, offering advice to other young and new members and I think it is a horrific thing that is happening to Chevy. She has him set up nicely and takes care of him just like us older more experienced keepers. She has showed pictures of her habitat and has told us just how she keeps him and I in no way think that his sickness is her fault.
I just think that Kenny picked an awful time to show such disrespect to another TFO member. I think that Katerina keeping a Sulcata is none of his business.
Why does Kenny think it's alright for him to tell another person what they should or shouldn't have. Who is Kenny to make that decision about another person?
I am a disabled old lady with only one working hand and I have an 80 pound Sulcata would you say I shouldn't have him?

 

[Kenny]

Maggie: with all due respect, I would have said the samething to anyone regardless of age. you're being disabled and elderly has nothing to do with if u can care for the Torts, unless of course you're disabled to the point of not being able to feed/water/clean them. Does your sulcata have a backyard? does it have alot of room? did you have a house wen u got it? if the answers are no then, NO you should not have/have had a sulcata
I have no problem defending my opinions, but if u look back I appologized to Marty for my poor timing and tact. I will however, NOT appologize for my opinion. It's fantastic how much she loves her sulcata, and how much she knows about it, but its not by any means an Ideal fit. If a random well educated, passionate 15 year old joined tomorrow, and expressed interest in getting a sully, would you encourage them ? if so why ?
I think it's safe to say that you would not. I think you would tell them to start with something smaller, that a sully is not a good tort for a 15 year old.
the point is that YES, my timing was bad, but suggesting that I'm being a bully, and that there is no validity to my point is just wrong.
I will challenge anyone here if I think they're in trouble. Not to start a fight but to start a discussion(which is why we are all here)

 

[moswen]

i thought we were all here to help out other tortoise keepers in need... maybe you oughtta set me right though kenny.

 

[Marty333]

I didn't just randomly pick a sully I planned on getting a Sulcata. I prefer them from their behavior, size, and care. I knew they were going to get big and I was ready for that. We have another piece of property for our greys so I know when Chevy got bigger I could make him a home on that property. I prefer larger torts in my opinion and I have no desire to really get a russian. Why buy a species of tort that I really don't want instead of the one i prefer maybe in the far future I will get a russian but why should I have to start out with one?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Maggie: with all due respect, I would have said the samething to anyone regardless of age. you're being disabled and elderly has nothing to do with if u can care for the Torts, unless of course you're disabled to the point of not being able to feed/water/clean them. Does your sulcata have a backyard? does it have alot of room? did you have a house wen u got it? if the answers are no then, NO you should not have/have had a sulcata
I have no problem defending my opinions, but if u look back I appologized to Marty for my poor timing and tact. I will however, NOT appologize for my opinion. It's fantastic how much she loves her sulcata, and how much she knows about it, but its not by any means an Ideal fit. If a random well educated, passionate 15 year old joined tomorrow, and expressed interest in getting a sully, would you encourage them ? if so why ?
I think it's safe to say that you would not. I think you would tell them to start with something smaller, that a sully is not a good tort for a 15 year old.
the point is that YES, my timing was bad, but suggesting that I'm being a bully, and that there is no validity to my point is just wrong.
I will challenge anyone here if I think they're in trouble. Not to start a fight but to start a discussion(which is why we are all here)

I did not suggest that you were a bully, nor did I suggest that your opinion had no validity. But I did come right out and say that Katerina keeping a Sulcata was none of your business...

 

[franeich]

All this from some one living in an apartment keeping his poor torts inside. Not outdoors where they belong.

 

[Sweetness_bug]

I didn't just randomly pick a sully I planned on getting a Sulcata. I prefer them from their behavior, size, and care. I knew they were going to get big and I was ready for that. We have another piece of property for our greys so I know when Chevy got bigger I could make him a home on that property. I prefer larger torts in my opinion and I have no desire to really get a russian. Why buy a species of tort that I really don't want instead of the one i prefer maybe in the far future I will get a russian but why should I have to start out with one?

I started off with a sully...I agree go with what you want!! Not something to get you by. Good point,

 

[John]

I'm going too throw my 2 cents in I think any pet has its ups and downs and different level of responsibility.and each person who decides too take on a responsibility,if they way it out and truly feel they can handle it there age does not matter.my son is 11 and can not only out snake hunt probably anyone on the forum,but he also cares for my pythons,because he wants too,it makes him happy.i personally waited too get into tortoises for several resons im not gonna bore you with.I'm gonna end with this though i frequently go too reptile shows, and watch all the different reptiles leaving in their little plastic coffins.chevy as far as im concerned is in very capable hands,this girls presence on this forum alone shows more commitment then most people have,i wish here luck,and if it doent work out.get right back on that horse,and try again! good luck john

 

[Livingstone]

Ok, I'm really not trying to start a Flame war here.

My point was this:
there are alot of tortoises available in the pet trade. Sulcata should be reserved (imo) for keepers who own property , not for children.

Take it easy there. Some if us do quite well raising sully's inside. Success with tortoises has nothing to do with indoor or outdoor, so do yourself a favor and drop that. Anybody can replicate an outdoor environment inide, zoo's raise aldabs inside, if you're looking for an example.

Raising hatchlings is about regulating stress, and trauma. While an owner may think its cute to pick up a tortoise and move it around from location to location or put it on the back of a dog. That animal is experiencing tremendous amounts of stress, and as we all know stress equals sick. That is where raising a tortoise is different for an adult and a child. A child (for the most part) does not understand that the "love" they are showing the animal actually causes more damage than leaving the animal alone to do its thing.

The only thing an owner should be doing is feeding and soaking. Tortoises dont need human interaction.

 

[coreyc]

Ok Here's my two cent I personally think it does not matter what it is a dog cat snake or tortoise if you do not have the means to properly take care of it food vet care space what ever it takes to care the animals don't get it there are to many pets people get only to find out they bit off more than they can chew and whine up getting rid of people need to think it trough before making a life long commitment

 

[Kenny]

Ok, I'm obviously wrong in all you're eyes, and thats fine. I did however state from the very begining that this is MY OPINION.

Moswen: yes, we are all here to help. And what I did was suggest an option based on my opinion. never said if she didn't take it she was wrong, I just made a suggestion.

Maggie: This is a public forum. I have a right to express an opinion. I'm not telling her shes poorly caring for her animal, I'm giving her my opinion.


Franeich: I dont keep large torts, I keep small to moderately sized torts that do well inside. If you think I'mkeping my animals poorly, I encourage you to share your opinions and suggestions with me.

Squamata: I agree, alttoa pets reptile and otherwise are sold to young children that have no business owning them. My comments towards Marty were not suggesting she was one of those children. just that I thought she seemed in over her head.

Livingstone: I'm not saying that a sully absolutely can not be kept indoors, I'm saying that a plan needs to be made before obtaining an animal such as a sulcatta. and as far as a 15 year old high school student, that plan can not be put in place IMO.

Look, I'm not looking for a fight here. But apparantly I'm getting one, so I'll end on this.
I was wrong in the context that I made my statement. I was wrong to single out Marty. I should have started a seperate thread , with no names mentioned, and for that I'm sincerely sorry. Not because I'm under fire, I enjoy the discussion end of it, But because I presented my opinion poorly, in effect upsetting a 15 year old girl with the best intentions. Marty, I screwed up and for that I am sorry.
But I do think this is a valid discussion topic. I think the heat on me is due to how I went about adressing this topic (rightfully so).
I realise that the post that started all of this sounded worse then I intended it to be, and thats on me. But I've tried to be as clear in my tone as possible since then. I'm not trying to be arguementative, just trying to be clear as to where I'm coming from.
My opinions are my opinions, they matter to me and whomever wants to invest in them. That doesn't make them right, that doesn't make them wrong..they're just opinions.

 

[onarock]

This is insane. The discussions tha I read on this forum when people need help is incredible. A young woman/girl joinded the forum is raising a tortiose. This tortoise is having a medical issue and the girl needs help. Instead of offering advice or sharing experience to her, we are now in a debate over who should and shouldnt raise tortoises and wich ones they can and cant raise. I made some calls on Martys behalf to vets in the Orlando area to see if anyone does payment plan or pro-bono work and got some good results, hopefully Marty runs with it. I got an idea for all of you in the lower 48. How about this, in responce to what I've been reading... I dont think any of you in the lower 48 should keep tortoises that dont hibernate. If people are of the opinion that keeping tortoises is a matter of age and physics then I take it a step further and say its also a matter of geography. If you live where it gets cold below 63 degrees at night or durring the day then you have no business keeping tortoises that arent CDT or other hibernating species. I leave you with that ..... from my house that never and I mean never gets cold, a fond Aloha

 

[John]

this is heading too a debate on wether the pet trade should exsist at all,and that will be a long debate im sure,i think we should go with onarock,and focus on helping this tortoise. happy thanksgiving all thanks john