Burrow Collapse

[Tank'sMom]

Yup. It happened. My poor Tank is having a bad couple weeks. First the dog attack, then all the rain and sometime last night his burrow gave out and completely collapsed.
Now I have been keeping him out by blocking the entrance for several days now for fear of this happening. I'm soooooooo glad I did.

I know he could of dug under the ladder, or knocked it over. But it's like he knew. He stayed away. For days.
It started with the overhang falling off.

I was pretty sure that the rest of the structure would be ok, supported by the amount of "ceiling" and concrete above it, which happens to be in my neighbors yard!!!

Boy was I wrong.
It's been sunny today. And most of yesterday. So I've allowed him back in the "hole" but blocked off the former tunnel entrance.

Not sure what to do now.
Can Sulcatas get depressed? Because I'm depressed for him!

 

[wellington]

So sorry for the both of you. Wow, when it rains it pours right. Sorry, bad choice of words. Maybe you can make some side walls and a roof and put it over where his burrow used to be and fill it in with dirt. He can make another one. Will be entertaining for him, keep him busy and his and your mind off of being depressed and it won't be able to collapse again.

 

[Tank'sMom]

That would be nice except that the big collapsed part is in my neighbors backyard. :O
Were gonna fill it in. Probably block the entrance with that gate or plywood. Let him keep the hole and see what happens.

 

[Abdulla6169]

That would be nice except that the big collapsed part is in my neighbors backyard. :O
Were gonna fill it in. Probably block the entrance with that gate or plywood. Let him keep the hole and see what happens.

I hope everything goes OK, but do you think he'll dig under it (the gate)?

 

[Yvonne G]

When you get around to making your improvements, see if you can dig down along the property line and bury that 'gate' that you're using to block him out so the tunnel can't go that direction.

 

[Tank'sMom]

When you get around to making your improvements, see if you can dig down along the property line and bury that 'gate' that you're using to block him out so the tunnel can't go that direction.

That is the plan. Because of the condition of the soil at the moment he can't really dig. Trying to dig in that stuff is like riding a slip'n'slide! I'm going to take advantage of this "wet" time to fill in the old burrow and try to block off the neighbors yard.
My concern is, he still has his hole. With the shelter on top. Once things dry up, is going to try to dig another tunnel? I'm hoping I can keep him out of the neighbors yard, but he could go in another direction. He's done this before when we had to re-direct him away from my 14 year old lab/shepherd mix's grave site that he dug into and lies on the opposite side of the hole.
The fact that he is a digger has me wondering what I should do. Will he be content with just his big hole in the ground or is he gonna start a new tunnel? Should I fill in the hole and make him start from scratch somewhere else?

 

[Tank'sMom]

I hope everything goes OK, but do you think he'll dig under it (the gate)?

I think he could dig anywhere he wants! Lol. But not in the condition the mud is currently. He would have to dig a whole new hole no matter where he decides to put it. He'd have to go pretty deep to get under there.
As far as him digging under the gate and getting into the neighbors yard? He might. We know them well and their yard is secure. I'd be curious to see if he tries that. He's pretty particular about "his" part of the yard. He doesn't even venture into other easily accessible areas of our yard.
Soon we will have it filled in and who knows what'll happen next!

 

[wellington]

If I remember correctly, Toms hasn't dug since he has made them their night box and put it into the ground. I will see if I can get him here to confirm. @Tom please advise here.

 

[Tom]

In earlier threads I advised Tank'sMom to start him a hole in the middle of the yard and away from any structure. This would have created some higher ground from the mound of dirt that Tank removed from the hole. She didn't seem to want to do it that way and built an above ground box instead. I then tried to explained that an above ground box won't work in summer in her hot climate. Tank kept digging where he wanted to because he had to, and he ended up over where this burrow collapsed because it wasn't in a good location. I tried to help, but it seemed like I was pushing to hard and my advice wasn't wanted, so I backed off.

I haven't commented on this thread because I don't have any other advice to offer. Housing big sulcatas is a challenge for anyone in any climate and some people have to learn the hard way. I'm one of those people sometimes too.

 

[Tank'sMom]

In earlier threads I advised Tank'sMom to start him a hole in the middle of the yard and away from any structure. This would have created some higher ground from the mound of dirt that Tank removed from the hole. She didn't seem to want to do it that way and built an above ground box instead. I then tried to explained that an above ground box won't work in summer in her hot climate. Tank kept digging where he wanted to because he had to, and he ended up over where this burrow collapsed because it wasn't in a good location. I tried to help, but it seemed like I was pushing to hard and my advice wasn't wanted, so I backed off.

I haven't commented on this thread because I don't have any other advice to offer. Housing big sulcatas is a challenge for anyone in any climate and some people have to learn the hard way. I'm one of those people sometimes too.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there, Tom! Your advice is always welcome, appreciated and taken into serious consideration. Seriously!
If you remember, I placed the "house" in an area that I thought would be a good spot if he decided to burrow. He did not. He never used the box.
The burrow was started while we were out of town for a long weekend. (The box was placed over the burrow after it existed, in an attempt to offer more security and shade.) I sought out your advice at that point, and you advised me to let him go for it. Stating that you also have a couple Torts with natural burrows. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I was pretty sure you implied this to be a current situation.
And while I would love to do one of your famous, and incredibly ingenious "box burrows", I neither have the stamina nor confidence that it would work with Tank.
Reading through your Bio, it seems you are familiar with my area. You did some work at Gladys Porter Zoo at some point? That's where I am. I've worked there too. Brownsville,Tx. There is no "higher ground". Everything is extremely flat. If anything I may have a 5 degree decline towards the lake. With the amount of rain we have accumulated, no part of my yard was "safe". It is all equally wet and I believe that no matter where he'd dug, the outcome would have been the same.
I had hoped not. But at this point I am just happy that he is safe, and was not injured as a result of this predictable event.
Tom, your advice is ALWAYS welcome and WANTED. I look up to you in high regard. I would be thrilled to have your advice on this matter. But, the fact remains that no matter where I have attempted to "lead" Tank to dig his burrow, he has not obliged. And no part of my location is significantly better than the other. :/
I am at a loss. Just someone who loves this tortoise and wants to do the best I can for him.

Tom, I cannot express how your posting that your "advice was I welcomed or unwanted" is way off base! Believe me, I wish I had the resources to follow it. If I really tried hard, I might be able to pull it off. However, this stubborn tort may not even take advantage of any "man-made" burrow provided him. That is just my gut instinct. I am so sorry if that has offended you in any way, shape or form.

 

[ascott]

Ahhh come on now....stop all the butt kissing,..... You have a real problem--you have a tenacious tortoise to deal with.....

So, why not completely fill in the hole (from a liability angle to the neighbors and their pool...if I remember correctly) and while doing this, pour concrete in the ground at predetermined points so that the entire corner is not able to be accessed by the tort for burrowing---this will be a subtle way to not have the tort pissed at you rolleyes but will make it hard for the tort to continue its path....I believe I would do a starter hole closer to the tree in your yard and plop that house over the starter hole---I would also try to replicate the direction of the burrow entrance to match the direction of the collapsed one--just trying to up your chances for interest by the the tort....I would also ONLY offer food in the line of sight of the starter hole....I would offer a few treats that lead to the new hole, I would offer some new hole points of interest (goodies the tort likes) to try to get the tort to at least "look" in its direction...and then each and every time he begins to move from the new hole....fill it in, be as relentless as he is--you can do it...we are a stubborn species as well....

I am so very happy that the cave in did not harm him...now that would have been a bad thing...this, well, this is just a battle of wills....also, I would be WAAAAYYY nice to the neighbors, perhaps even buy them a plant or two for the damaged area--I mean, they likely have no idea that burrow was directionally headed for their pool...and a crack in their pool foundation would be big trouble.... that would make you and the neighbors instantly the "Browns and McCoys" in a moments notice.....trust me.

 

[ascott]

oh yeah...also have a contingency plan for the tort to be placed in when the weather gets undesirable....the constant wetness and then any cool temps with the wetness can set that beautiful tort up for some serious health issues....no good.

 

[Tom]

I am not, and was not offended at all. I have a predilection to being way too pushy sometimes. I got the sense from you that you either didn't believe what I was telling you, or that you just didn't want to do the things I was suggesting. I have to remind myself that I can't fix every problem for every person, and its not my job to. I liked you from the start, but at some point your replies (or at least my perception of your replies) indicated to me that while you appreciated my words, you didn't feel like what I was suggesting was going to work for you. At that point I just let the matter go, hence my reply to let him go for it. I sometimes have to remind myself in my own flippant way, "You can't save the world dude."

I don't know your area at all. I think you've confused my profile with someone else's. Never been to the Brownsville Zoo. In fact I have very little experience with tortoise in very rainy climates. From what I have seen in my travels, fences and structures channel the water into the burrows and allow it to collect in areas where it normally wouldn't.

I still think if you go get a shovel and start a burrow in the middle of the yard, away from fences and structures, it would work fine. As the tortoise excavates and removes the dirt from underground it mounds up around the burrow entrance. Sort of like an ant hill. My ranch is on a gentle slope too and when we have rain here, it runs down hill right toward the burrow, but the mounded dirt channels the water right around it. Some rain gets down into the burrow from falling directly into the hole, but the majority misses it. Seems like in a climate with heavy rain it wouldn't be too hard to build a simple shade table with four legs and some plywood directly over the hole to keep all the rain out. 8x8' would make a nice dry area and shade the burrow entrance in your super hot climate. The tortoise will do all the work to keep rain run off out of the burrow and a little help from you could keep the area around the entrance drier and less likely to collapse. It might take some effort and time for him to decide he "likes" the area you've chosen, but once he does, you'll be on easy street.

As I said before. Above ground shelters are simply not going to work well in a climate that is 105+ on a regular basis. They need to get underground when its that hot. Your heavy rainfall complicates that fact, but it can be worked with.

 

[Tom]

.... that would make you and the neighbors instantly the "Browns and McCoys" in a moments notice.....trust me.

{...sigh...} Hatfields and McCoys...

Who are the Browns?

 

[ascott]

Tom...apology for the Browns reference...most don't realize all of the name sakes involved and killed during the popular Hatfield and McCoy feuds...it is absolutely more recognized as such...so you can replace my initial reference with the more mainstream....

 

[Tank'sMom]

Ahhh come on now....stop all the butt kissing,..... You have a real problem--you have a tenacious tortoise to deal with.....

So, why not completely fill in the hole (from a liability angle to the neighbors and their pool...if I remember correctly) and while doing this, pour concrete in the ground at predetermined points so that the entire corner is not able to be accessed by the tort for burrowing---this will be a subtle way to not have the tort pissed at you rolleyes but will make it hard for the tort to continue its path....I believe I would do a starter hole closer to the tree in your yard and plop that house over the starter hole---I would also try to replicate the direction of the burrow entrance to match the direction of the collapsed one--just trying to up your chances for interest by the the tort....I would also ONLY offer food in the line of sight of the starter hole....I would offer a few treats that lead to the new hole, I would offer some new hole points of interest (goodies the tort likes) to try to get the tort to at least "look" in its direction...and then each and every time he begins to move from the new hole....fill it in, be as relentless as he is--you can do it...we are a stubborn species as well....

I am so very happy that the cave in did not harm him...now that would have been a bad thing...this, well, this is just a battle of wills....also, I would be WAAAAYYY nice to the neighbors, perhaps even buy them a plant or two for the damaged area--I mean, they likely have no idea that burrow was directionally headed for their pool...and a crack in their pool foundation would be big trouble.... that would make you and the neighbors instantly the "Browns and McCoys" in a moments notice.....trust me.

The neighbors knew it was there. That was an interesting conversation. Ummmmm, Tank is digging at full blast straight at your pool. lol. But yes, we plan to repair their damage. I'm already making payments on the $1300 vet bill because their dog got out and wandered over to my yard. The dogs didn't like that. Yeah. We're great neighbors!
I'm just almost scared to get him started on another burrow. This collapse was scary. If he digs another, it will also collapse in the rain..... that is all I can think. And where is a good spot??? You say around the tree... I thought about that but wouldn't roots get in the way?

 

[Tank'sMom]

I am not, and was not offended at all. I have a predilection to being way too pushy sometimes. I got the sense from you that you either didn't believe what I was telling you, or that you just didn't want to do the things I was suggesting. I have to remind myself that I can't fix every problem for every person, and its not my job to. I liked you from the start, but at some point your replies (or at least my perception of your replies) indicated to me that while you appreciated my words, you didn't feel like what I was suggesting was going to work for you. At that point I just let the matter go, hence my reply to let him go for it. I sometimes have to remind myself in my own flippant way, "You can't save the world dude."

I don't know your area at all. I think you've confused my profile with someone else's. Never been to the Brownsville Zoo. In fact I have very little experience with tortoise in very rainy climates. From what I have seen in my travels, fences and structures channel the water into the burrows and allow it to collect in areas where it normally wouldn't.

I still think if you go get a shovel and start a burrow in the middle of the yard, away from fences and structures, it would work fine. As the tortoise excavates and removes the dirt from underground it mounds up around the burrow entrance. Sort of like an ant hill. My ranch is on a gentle slope too and when we have rain here, it runs down hill right toward the burrow, but the mounded dirt channels the water right around it. Some rain gets down into the burrow from falling directly into the hole, but the majority misses it. Seems like in a climate with heavy rain it wouldn't be too hard to build a simple shade table with four legs and some plywood directly over the hole to keep all the rain out. 8x8' would make a nice dry area and shade the burrow entrance in your super hot climate. The tortoise will do all the work to keep rain run off out of the burrow and a little help from you could keep the area around the entrance drier and less likely to collapse. It might take some effort and time for him to decide he "likes" the area you've chosen, but once he does, you'll be on easy street.

As I said before. Above ground shelters are simply not going to work well in a climate that is 105+ on a regular basis. They need to get underground when its that hot. Your heavy rainfall complicates that fact, but it can be worked with.

Seeing as how nothing's working to my advantage during any aspect of this, I will take your advice and start a hole in a "nice location". But that still scares me. It's not so much where he put the burrow, just the fact that he wants one at all. Water getting into it is now not the only problem as it seems the collapse was caused by the weight of the wet dirt. :/
The weather is cooling down. Maybe he'll be content with what he has for now? If not I will try to guide him to a more suitable area. Maybe
even pour a concrete slab over the top!
This is hard.
And Tom, I never felt you to be pushy. I just contemplate my options too much! My bad.





top! Aye. This is tough. top? area.

 

[Tank'sMom]

Ignore that last bit.... phone screen cut off issues....

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Wow, I'm sorry, I hope this doesn't happen to the burrow my girl has been obsessing over there is a lot of rain here, but I've never doubted the structural integrity!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I hadn't heard that Tank got attacked by a dog...Seems to me almost all the bad stuff we warned you about has happened.... Bob doesn't dig and lives in a big shed, so I can't give you any burrow advice. Tom doesn't think a shed would work for Tank because of your daytime temps. It stays around 90 here for about a month. Most of the time it's either rain snow or mid 80's. When it's over 85 I turn on a small air conditioner in Bob's shed. But he mostly stays outside in his waterhole anyway....
BUT...briefly, if Tank was mine, I'd be penning him up and making a comfortable above ground living quarters. Contain him so he does not have access to dangerous digging places. Make something comfortable for him to live in and put a cheap air conditioner in it. I believe if he or tortoises in general are happy where they sleep they won't dig. I leave that air conditioner on all day when it's hot, but Bob rarely goes inside during the day. Does Tank have access to cool water during the day? Maybe if you dug him a wallow and put water in it he'd sit in that and not try to dig to cool off.
But, I keep tortoises differently than Tom does, and we all have the stuff that works for us. Bob's pen works for him and me...keep us posted, I love reading about somebody that causes more trouble than Bob has...