Anyone else here tired of being deleted or fluffed?

[wellington]

Again you are wrong. The WHOLE thread was asked to be removed, no, deleted. Yvonne already explained that, yet again. Then post were asked to be removed/deleted for a reason I will not say here, but a reason from the op. I also will not say why we kept yours out. As a "friend" it should have been obvious that your comment was not appropriate at that time. Maybe any other time, but not then. Jacqui was not playing therapist, she was being a concerned friend, as all us mods were! I have tried to explain this over and over to you. You have an agenda stuck in your head about it and just refuse to try and understand how we perceived a few post before yours. I don't know how to get you to understand, it was all out of GREAT CONCERN. Also, for my apologizing for not being perfect. It is not meant in any other way, then to say "SORRY". I am not PERFECT, mistakes happen! No snide remark intended.
As for more work for us mods. We will take it on without complaining. Too bad a lot of you can't do the same.
As for the posts that were removed. I didn't remove them. However, i just went and read them. It was your comment Dennis, that I am sure whoever removed them, felt they should. You didn't like the way their posts were trying to lighten things. So, they accommodated you!

given what we thought the frame of mind was sounding like of the OP and even if said in a way you thought was teasing, it could be taken in a worse light

This is the part that I have a problem with Jacqui, who are you to suddenly become a therapist,...no harsh words nor cussing nor hateful things were said whatsoever in the post of mine, none.

Are we now in a therapy session each and every post?--- I mean someone might be having an off day and come to the Forum to get a moment of fun and tortoise info and this will not be allowed because the mod police may not think someone can "handle" a joke? Really? Your post here was suppose to somehow explain and band aid what was done as it was thought the other party could not handle it? Wow...?

I COMPLETELY understand that the other party wanted a couple of their posts removed (not the entire thread) and why (I know) that is completely their choice (as they are the author of their post) HOWEVER, the reasoning why my post was removed and kept off the thread was irrational.

Jacqui, here is where you went wrong---no notice to the party that had their post deleted...uh, that would be me.

Barb, your cavalier posture on

"and not send you a pm explaining. Sorry we are not perfect."

Is the exact attitude I received from you and only you when I inquired.....

"However, when you did bring it to our attention. We did explain"

Who is "we"? I did not discuss with "we", I discussed with you...you are where I received all of my information, not any other mod.

Also, as a mod you should have some professionalism that holds true when dealing with each and every member..not attitude, not snipes at us....and if hiding of deeds was not happening..then this thread likely would never come to fruition...

 

[lisa127]

Ok...Joe the Plumber writes a post, "My tortoise loves to play in the sun."

and Suzy Cream Cheeze writes in response, "You are an addlepated nincompoop. Tortoises don't play. They have no "play" genes. They just live."

Suzy might have a valid point, but because she called Joe a name, it negates her whole comment. When I read that, I would just move her whole comment to the "to be deleted" file.

And in here lyes a problem...suppose Joe did not know this at all...that there is some validity to what Suzy said---instead of a mod offering a pm to Suzy letting her know her point is valid but served up in unacceptable way her point and information gets tossed as not valid...this is a big disservice to the forum...and this is what is part of what is being expressed here....if fluffed/edited/deleted without warrant then so much is lost in that action....

I would also like to point out Yvonne, you have used some potentially offensive descriptive name calling in your post--some may be offended by that....

I don't understand why there should be a need to send a pm to an adult person telling them to say to someone "you are a this or that" is inappropriate. As an adult a person should already know that.

 

[wellington]

Ok...Joe the Plumber writes a post, "My tortoise loves to play in the sun."

and Suzy Cream Cheeze writes in response, "You are an addlepated nincompoop. Tortoises don't play. They have no "play" genes. They just live."

Suzy might have a valid point, but because she called Joe a name, it negates her whole comment. When I read that, I would just move her whole comment to the "to be deleted" file.

And in here lyes a problem...suppose Joe did not know this at all...that there is some validity to what Suzy said---instead of a mod offering a pm to Suzy letting her know her point is valid but served up in unacceptable way her point and information gets tossed as not valid...this is a big disservice to the forum...and this is what is part of what is being expressed here....if fluffed/edited/deleted without warrant then so much is lost in that action....

I would also like to point out Yvonne, you have used some potentially offensive descriptive name calling in your post--some may be offended by that....

I don't understand why there should be a need to send a pm to an adult person telling them to say to someone "you are a this or that" is inappropriate. As an adult a person should already know that.

Yes Lisa, you would think so. Most of us are taught as kinds, that name calling is not excepted. Unfortunately, that's just not so Glad you get it

 

[Yvonne G]

Ok...Joe the Plumber writes a post, "My tortoise loves to play in the sun."

and Suzy Cream Cheeze writes in response, "You are an addlepated nincompoop. Tortoises don't play. They have no "play" genes. They just live."

Suzy might have a valid point, but because she called Joe a name, it negates her whole comment. When I read that, I would just move her whole comment to the "to be deleted" file.

And in here lyes a problem...suppose Joe did not know this at all...that there is some validity to what Suzy said---instead of a mod offering a pm to Suzy letting her know her point is valid but served up in unacceptable way her point and information gets tossed as not valid...this is a big disservice to the forum...and this is what is part of what is being expressed here....if fluffed/edited/deleted without warrant then so much is lost in that action....

I would also like to point out Yvonne, you have used some potentially offensive descriptive name calling in your post--some may be offended by that....

This is a direct quote from the "guidelines":

1. Do not post anything blatantly rude and/or insulting.

don't you think calling poor Joe an addlepated nincompoop is rude and insulting? Per the guidelines, I am perfectly within my rights to delete that. Then Suzy has the option to contact a mod or Josh and ask why her post never show up or was deleted, and we can explain it to her. But I have a sneaking suspicion that she knows what she did wrong.

 

[ascott]

Now what I see going on here is shameful ....I believe Barbara you and I have visited this word before.

I started a post expressing my tiredness of grown folks going in and altering someones post and leaving it raped of its initial intent and leaving behind some fluffed garbage....along with the person that did the act never sending a courteous pm to the party who did the initial post..

Two of the moderators here (Barbara and Jacqui--see, I am a big girl and can be upfront) have proceeded to make this about personal feelings vs keeping on target. This is what I fear also happens when a post is fluffed or deleted.

I will no longer speak of other forum members here by OP or other party in a sheepish way to avoid being direct....that is actually not my style.

I do not have to mention others in my thread intent---as appears folks here need to turn this into something it was not intended to be.

Barbara, I have no need for you to continue to repeat the bogus information you are reporting here as you attempted to feed me before....does nothing for me.

The attempts to use statements like ;

As an adult a person should already know that.

Really, should also an adult should not have a problem owning what they did and why and offering up so all is on the table?

Yes Lisa, you would think so. Most of us are taught as kinds, that name calling is not excepted. Unfortunately, that's just not soSad Glad you get it

Yet another example of your delightful attitude....lovely.

See, I can do the same thing--however, this is not what my intent was.

So, I am bringing it back around to what my original intent was when I started this thread....

If you must fluff---please just delete---please let the party being fluffed or deleted be aware so there is no question of what happened....and I sure would hope that mods know that they are not PERFECT and therefore should not assume that they know best.

 

[Laura]

BIG BROTHER>.. Love that show!
I am one of the Originals.. I don't come here as often.. but its mainly due to the repeat questions, concerns, etc etc... I wish there was an easier way to get people to READ before posting..
I am more on the Tortoise Home facebook page now.. but I tell people to come here all the time..

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

The fix is pretty simple.

1) change one word to another, like "Blah blah" to "(*&$% mod) just like they do in those old fashioned things called newspapers.

This is even used in the Sunday funnies for Beetle Bailey's Sarge and Blondie whose husband, Dagwood, often gets the wrath of of his boss Mr. Dithers.

In more erudite magazines like Smithsonian, when people write to the editor, those letter are sometimes, not always, edited. That is acknowledged by the editor or editors as ed or eds, which Tee Hee has nothing to do with erectile disfunction.

2) return the offending post to the OP or thread contributor and say "please alter the tone of this content"

These two very simple things would lend great credibility to the TFO.

The "introductions" thread is overwhelmed by newbies, you just gotta wonder why? Some are new to chelonains, some are very experienced but just new to TFO. Why is this????

My answer to that question is easy . . .

TFO comes up in Google searches very near the top of most general interest key words a newbie might use to learn something, or the experienced person found a good alternate point of view on a topic they searched for or was prompted by another past newbie. So the two for one answer is, lets all say it together. . .

TO LEARN

Is that learning going to come from another "newbie" at least in the sense of chelonian husbandry, science, or culture? My guess would be not so much.

The great contribution by newbies that are new to chelonians are the questions that make the experienced person think. Thank you for that.

Despite some Mod's indicating in the past that there are no 'experts' on TFO, frankly my opinion is the opposite, and that TFO via the internet is probably the biggest collection of experts ever assembled.

THAT ALONE IS WHY TFO persists and grows via content contribution by the experts answering those newbie questions and debating among themselves.

TFO is bigger collection of experts than the formation meeting of what is now the TSA (which I attended) and bigger than any chelonian specific seminar or conference that I have attended, and that is dozens. The TFO is a global clearing house for chelonian husbandry information. TFO has ruined the sale of dozens of "how to books" by the freely offered expert advice and knowledge so readily given here. The debates keep it current less we would be putting sulcatas in ten gallon aquariums on rabbit pellets in a cold room and feeding them iceburg lettuce.

If you edit and censor invisibly behind the keyboard, frankly you are (*@#'ing ) [word cleaned up by moderator ) that up royally, and then all TFO is left with are the threads about all those other topics and posts not related to chelonian husbandry, science and culture. There is an even bigger internet portal for that kind of content, it's called FaceBook. Josh, don't just wish you had that on tap??

There is no 'publish or perish' driver here, there are no printing, circulation, or color image costs here. The peer review is the other posters. Some of the info shared here is so near feces, I'm worried my computer will need a vet visit, but that too is how informative information is created and resolved. Those feces become fertilizer for good information growth.

A few posters pretty much only contribute images with little actual content, as an ongoing every post sales banner, "oh cute" without even paying Josh a cent. Hmm, that may be the other reason people come here to window shop, wish I had one of those, and those, and those, and those . . . and then they do click the paid ad or banner.

I find this as "all good" until ascott woke me from the lie of undisclosed editing and censorship, and that is soooooo easy to fix, just be transparent in your activities, JOSH and the MODS.

1) Turn away whole posts back to the poster for edit, you don't have to work your poor tired heads over the edit yourself after that drive in the rain to use the library computer, I agree you should not have to do that. Just read the new version and see if it fits the feel that is wanted here for information or language.

OR

2) change that one or two words followed by (one or two words mods) right in that darn offending post - gee whilickers already.

Garsh Mickey, that sure looks like alot of werk to mee. Why don't we just whitewarsh the hole town, and let the rain keep it kleen. Even Disney made fun of low wattage light bulbs and was sarcastic. His widow told me so.

White wash, yellow content, or opaque modification by the moderators, that is what we are talking about here.

So, all you younger audience of TFO, try a google search on yellow journalism, state propaganda, or some of those much more despicable things like plagiarism. Then when you have unattended access to your computer, you know, no parental supervision, you can see what all the fuss is about.

Will

 

[Yvonne G]

As to your fluff over delete comment, please remember that the Forum's program has an auto correct feature that doesn't allow certain words to be posted, and it automatically changes the word. The mods have no control over that. Not saying we don't or haven't changed words, just saying its not always us.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

As to your fluff over delete comment, please remember that the Forum's program has an auto correct feature that doesn't allow certain words to be posted, and it automatically changes the word. The mods have no control over that. Not saying we don't or haven't changed words, just saying its not always us.

Then change the darn software to add CompMod with those changed or deleted words. I would guess that is where Josh would earn his nickel.

Will

 

[ascott]

Yvonne, entire sentences have been deleted and left behind selected sentences that then removes the entire meaning of the post to begin with--this is what I find horrid and not right---then no notice sent on top of it?

...I understand what you mean---I did not use curse words--this I understand auto changes

 

[Yvonne G]

Ok, folks. We've heard you and we are acting on it.

Jacqui is going to make up a form letter advising a member that his recent post is offensive (or whatever). All the mods will have input on the letter's content.

We will make the offensive post invisible to the general membership, but it will stay right where it is in the thread.

We will send the form letter along with a copy/paste of the offensive post and ask the member to clean it up. They will have one chance to make it right or it will be permanently deleted.

We haven't nailed it down yet, but I'm thinking maybe we'll make bold what we have found to be against the guidelines.

Once we get the corrected post back, we'll edit the original post and make it visible again.

 

[Neal]

2) return the offending post to the OP or thread contributor and say "please alter the tone of this content"

These two very simple things would lend great credibility to the TFO.

This is brilliant.

I too have been "put off" by how the forum is managed. I don't consider my problems with this forum as an issue with the moderators on a personal level, I think it's more of the forum culture that the moderators are trying to encourage. As an example - from Yvonne's first post, I get the feeling that things are edited to cater to a younger demographic. Which isn't a bad thing, but it loses the interest of someone like me who would appreciate more grown up conversations without someone hovering over my every word. So I choose to spend the bulk of my time elsewhere that agrees more with what I want. "It's not you, it's me".

Sure we can get into heated conversations, but personally, I have learned the most from these types of discussions. I don't feel that I can participate on this forum with as much passion as I really have because...well...the bulk of what has been brought up in this thread is why. I understand that the reality of what happens is a lot more complex than what I see, but I'm not in a position to see the whole picture so I think something like Will's suggestion above would go a long way towards improvement on the issues discussed here.

 

[Tim/Robin]

His assessment of the situation, coupled with Jacqui's assessment of the situation illustrates the enormous disconnect between the members and what happens "behind closed doors" with the mods. I have met Tim in person. He is not some unreasonable hot head whacko. He is very rational, reasonable and well spoken. He is also a very polite and just "normal" person. If he is feeling this way, and many others obviously also feel this way, perhaps we should take it as an indication that there is a problem that needs addressing.

Whatever it is that is happening here, whoever's perception we choose to favor, the fact is that members of Tim's caliber are being driven away. Members like me, yagyujubei and Angela, are not happy with what goes on. That is a sad sad thing for a tortoise forum. Many of our more experienced members just choose not to contribute. I have had the same thing happen as yagyujubei, and I share the same perception of the situation.

Maybe this is just an unavoidable side effect of human nature, and things that happen when a large group of people is assembled, but maybe with some thought and effort we can improve the situation and get people like Tim to want to stick around and contribute their vast knowledge to our forum.

Thanks Tom!!! I have been made out to look like a complete moron or at very least a hostile individual. It is nice to hear from someone that has met me, that this could not be farther from the truth.

The only way any change will come about is IF it hits Josh in the pocket book. I guarantee if everyone were to boycott the forum for 6 months and the traffic stats changed drastically, he would take a serious look at the current moderation!!

 

[ShellyTurtlesCats]

Ah, good old "Gang mentality".

 

[sibi]

Yvonne, I was with you all the way until your last sentence. See, that comment of ...then complain when we treat you like children...is derogatory. Most of us here are NOT children, and despite disagreements and spewing insults, which all grown-ups are capable of, it's very much a part of adult life. No one has a right to treat another as a child. It's insulting to the adult, regardless of any childish behaviors, and no one likes it! When mods add their opinions, they must be very objective, otherwise their opinions not only adds fuel to the fire, but then they become guilty of doing the same thing they're trying to halt. It doesn't help ease tensions, but adds to the problem. Yes, mods are humans who sometimes make mistakes and who may lash out like a child too, but you wouldn't like it if someone treated you as a child, right? I'd like to say I think the world of you mods. Just watch what you say, or you may have another battle on your hand.

Ok...Joe the Plumber writes a post, "My tortoise loves to play in the sun."

and Suzy Cream Cheeze writes in response, "You are an addlepated nincompoop. Tortoises don't play. They have no "play" genes. They just live."

Suzy might have a valid point, but because she called Joe a name, it negates her whole comment. When I read that, I would just move her whole comment to the "to be deleted" file.

And if I left Suzy's comment there for all to see, you can damned well be sure that some other jerk would come right along behind her and jump on the band wagon to make fun of Joe.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. If only Suzy had made her comment without making fun of Joe, it could have stayed put.

Why do you all have to act like such children, then complain when we treat you like children?

 

[laney]

Oh gee, I feel like I've missed something here! I haven't been a member for years so maybe I have missed a lot of what people are getting so fuelled up about.
I think thinks are running ok but to be honest when I see things starting to get off topic or personal I just stop reading the thread, which is a shame but in all honesty I'm here to drain the information out of all your heads mwahaha (in an evil laugh btw) I almost stopped reading this thread as it was getting a wee bit tense lol but I cheated to be honest and skipped a few pages! (Oops truthful keyboard grr)
I assume that without the work of the moderators I would have probably left by now because things would just keep going off topic and personal.
What I will say for sure is that I don't know any of you but I sure do appreciate every one of ya, whether you have helped in one of my posts or just posted some pics on your torts.

Sharing the love fae a hippie in a kilt LOL xx

 

[ShellyTurtlesCats]

I haven't been here long, but I enjoy it all... even the "childish" stuff.

 

[mike taylor]

Re: RE: Anyone else here tired of being deleted or fluffed?

love the forum, but i do agree there are some 'know it alls" here...an most of the time..the rude coments are being said to a newbie whos just excited and has alot of questions and might have been guided in the wrong direction...those people come here for friendly advice..not to be mocked or made in fun of...which alot of the "regulars" , older members and some mods doo..quite alot.... why cant we all just be a big happy turtle family!!! new turtle lovers, old tortoise owners, we can be the TURTLE GANG!!! LOL

Thats what I'm screaming !!!! Turtle Gang . But I have been a victim of fluff myself . I got called a racist so I called him a jackass is that wrong I think not but i was fluffed .
It hurts to be fluffed I can still fill the pain . I'm just kidding people get over it nobody is got to get along with everyone so if it takes being fluffed or made fun of to help my animals then make fun of me . Then you will be leaving someone else alone .
Sent from my C771 using TortForum mobile app

 

[hunterk997]

Ok, folks. We've heard you and we are acting on it.

Jacqui is going to make up a form letter advising a member that his recent post is offensive (or whatever). All the mods will have input on the letter's content.

We will make the offensive post invisible to the general membership, but it will stay right where it is in the thread.

We will send the form letter along with a copy/paste of the offensive post and ask the member to clean it up. They will have one chance to make it right or it will be permanently deleted.

We haven't nailed it down yet, but I'm thinking maybe we'll make bold what we have found to be against the guidelines.

Once we get the corrected post back, we'll edit the original post and make it visible again.

I have read all of the replies, and this seems like a good way to get rid of the issue people are talking about. I like the "bold" idea too, I just think it's nifty.

 

[jaizei]

This perceived favoritism, even if it is a misunderstanding, has caused many a new person, and some long term members too, to leave this forum. What I don't like, and what I think Dean is referencing, is that it seems like some moderators don't like some of the members. This is totally natural, normal and acceptable to me, as we are all human. If one of the mods who I respect and has shown me courtesy and respect in the past (Yvonne, for just one example) feels the need to tone down one of my more passionate posts, I have no problem with that. I would like to be made aware of it, but I understand it and have told her so in the distant past. But when my work is edited or deleted anonymously, and it does not seem justified according to the forum rules, I cannot help feeling some animosity toward this perceived injustice. Knowing that at least two mods clearly do not like me and have demonstrated marked discord toward me in the past, makes it even worse.

“I don't dislike you, I nothing you.”

I have a poor opinion of your behavior. Change it and my opinion would change. Attacking anyone with a different opinion and name calling will not.

This 'perceived favoritism' has had one benefactor over all else: YOU. The posts I have deleted were egregious and unmistakably against the rules. You think your posts being deleted hurts you? It helps you. You should be sending Josh a check every month for PR. If every post you have ever made to this forum were to become available for all to see, I think you would have some explaining to do.

Every post I have made, every PM I have sent, every action I have performed as a moderator. All aboveboard. If it were possible to collate this information and make it available for all to see, I would do so instantly. It will show the countless cheap shots certain members have taken where I didn't respond, look no further than this thread for an example. There will be no profanity filled PMs directed at anyone.