Aldabras in Russia

Dimitry

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Hi everybody! Just new to your forum. Anyway I'm from Russia and seems to not to many people are breeding aldabras locally. No surprise, most of Russia is like Alaska :) I'm would like to order one or two hatchlings from aldabraman probably, but before I make my mind I have to sort out few questions. Firstly my plan is to get aldabras once I move to Sochi which is similar climate to Louisiana, Alabama or Georgia. That means half of the year tortoises should be kept inside winter shelter and that's the biggest challenge. I could not find what's a winter housing size required for 2 adult aldabras (the only reference I've got that 2??? Tortoises kept in 2400 ft green house and half of it is occupied by tropical plants) so is it 1200 ft enough for 2 adult aldabras for the cold season? Another challenge is food, obviously it's much easier to keep tortoises on a free range, but what kind of food should be given to them in the winter when grasslands not available? I really like the way that all aldabraman tortoises have no pyramiding. But how to feed when half a year free range is not available? Thanks for helping :)
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Dimitry, and welcome to the Forum!

I'm not good with numbers, and I can't picture how big 1200 ft would be. But your giant tortoises HAVE to have lots of room to walk around. If they are contained in too small a space they become lame or crippled.

You can offer grocery store greens, but use the dark, leafy greens, not the light lettuces. You can also feed them opuntia cactus and a good manufactured diet. I don't know if Mazuri Tortoise Diet is available to you in Russia. It's made by the Purina folks.
 

wellington

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Hello and Welcome. Good luck in your adventure. @ALDABRAMAN may be able to help with enclosure size, although he's never had to worry about that long term.
 

Gillian M

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A very warm welcome to the forum! :D

Please do not forget to post pics once you get your tort(s). :tort:
 

Dimitry

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I'll drop an email to Aldabraman, once I have all questions made up :) seems to be he has a good experience with the giant torts.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Good luck on getting an import permit. Unless you have some sort of inside access to the office that grants permits, it will not happen. If you do have that access, well that is wonderful. Maybe you could help me get an export permit?
 

Dimitry

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I haven't gone yet in details regarding paper work. As far as I know aldabra breeders in USA should be able to provide all vet paperwork, I'm not sure what Russians want to see.
 

Dimitry

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Just looked through the Russian for. Seems to be that airport customs should be aware of what paperwork exactly needed, hope that it won't be hassle to get all paperwork to export torts from USA.
 

dmmj

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the biggest problem is going to be finding someone who will ship there. I know aldabraman does not ship
 

Dimitry

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For sure that should be negotiated. I've found one breeder in California that said on his website that he does delivery worldwide. Technically there's a direct flight Miami to Moscow and if there's all paperwork in place it should not be any problem. I believe the case for the breeders is warranty that torts arrive healthy in place.
 

wellington

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For sure that should be negotiated. I've found one breeder in California that said on his website that he does delivery worldwide. Technically there's a direct flight Miami to Moscow and if there's all paperwork in place it should not be any problem. I believe the case for the breeders is warranty that torts arrive healthy in place.
Is that place in CA Toucan Jungle? All of his are imported. I don't think that he actually breeds them himself. Not since before 2012 and if you read his site, he does list what is ready for US import.
 

Dimitry

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Well it's make things more complicated. Toucan jungle that's a website I've been looking at. It's not next door travel from Russia to Miami, anyway it not that easy as I expected. I'm able to find aldabras locally in Russia, but there's no guarantee on them where they coming from etc. Always the best to buy them directly from breeder
 

wellington

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If you can buy them locally, that is probably the better way to go. Less stress/travel on the tort and you can hopefully go to where they are sold and see them before buying.
 

Dimitry

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I have an opportunity to buy locally, but I imagine that it's not from local breeders. Somebody buy torts in Thailand or so and then resell it in Russia. The only way for me to get aldabra here is to check with Moscow zoo, but I'm not sure yet if they sell any. flight time directly from Florida to Russia is 12 hours, same as to Hawaii. So technically is possible. I'm not really trust breeders from Asia, don't know why, but for me in USA it's a better care.
 

Dimitry

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Apparently Moscow zoo is not selling aldabras to private owners, not a good news.
 

wellington

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I have an opportunity to buy locally, but I imagine that it's not from local breeders. Somebody buy torts in Thailand or so and then resell it in Russia. The only way for me to get aldabra here is to check with Moscow zoo, but I'm not sure yet if they sell any. flight time directly from Florida to Russia is 12 hours, same as to Hawaii. So technically is possible. I'm not really trust breeders from Asia, don't know why, but for me in USA it's a better care.
I don't think Aldabraman will ship to you. However, have you looked into Floridaiguana.com? He may ship to you. He is also a member of the forum I believe, just not very active. He raises his own.
 

Dimitry

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Thanks for info. I've just searched on Russian web, seems to be there's no private breeders locally. Also just a year ago a nature Park near my place ordered 4 juvenile aldabras from Mauritius. I'll try to contact them and see what they say. My point is even if I fly to Florida and by torts locally I still need all export paperwork in place, i.e. there's no need for me to be physically over there, just getting extra cost for hotel, flight etc. Not yet spoken with aldabraman, but I have to check all variants. Mention again technically it's all possible, torts should survive 12 hours direct flight. Challenge is paperwork
 

Dimitry

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OK. The plan of action is following, once I arrive back to mother Russia, I'll try to contact owner of nature Park next to my place and check her experience with importing of aldabras from abroad. Then check with airport customs in Moscow. Afterwards when I know for sure what docs needed I'll contact breeders in states. Anyway thanks for your help and advices here on forum, I'll be back next week probably with further info on my case
 

Kapidolo Farms

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There are direct flights from Los Angeles to Moscow as well. To export from the USA there is a need to declare the export as all tortoises are CITES, Aldabras are CITES II. In theory there is a CITES office in one ministry or another in Moscow (I forget even though I went there) who will want to see they arrived with the CITES docs from the USA. For the USA no vet paper is required for import, but government officials like to see that kind of thing. I don't know if there is a 'health cert' requirement for import into Russia of a tortoise.

In 2012 I tried to find the correct officials to export from Russia, with the help of the curator at the Moscow Zoo. The zoo people said they couldn't even import antivenum for snake bites as they could not get CITES permits. I reached out to the officials with Russian text, went to the office even. Totally rebuffed, they just don't care. Everyone I spoke with wished for "Soviet Times" when a small bride would make anything happen. It now seems these are positions where the employees need only show up for work, not actually do anything. I'm sure my interest was reported as work for three or four days on interaction on that guys monthly "what I did" report.

To be clear there are many dealers of exotics, more or less out in the open who trade in animals that were smuggled in. At the new version of the Moscow bird market dozens of non-native CITES permit type animals were available. Many rare and hard to find species. Most brought in from Indonesia. I spoke with a few private keepers and they said there is more or less no concern with illegal animal activity until you get involved with big cat or bear skins, caviar, and things like that, no one cares about parrots or tortoises etc at the local level.

I also happened to notice that even though Russia has the most advanced screening tools of any international Airports, the attendees to the x-ray devices have become accustomed to those very devices to do all the work in identifying what is in luggage, and they don't spend much time looking themselves. Tortoises don't set of any sound effect for them to look more closely. But that was on the entry side outbound from Moscow.

From elsewhere to Russia is any one's bet on the scrutiny that may be applied to luggage.

During the summer when the monkeys are in their outside pens, and the monkey winter house is empty, they have a temporary reptile exhibit. The guy who runs that during the summer is a better contact than the actual Herp House curator at the Moscow Zoo.

I was not able to make direct contact with Herp people at the St. Petersburg Zoo. There are well know Herp People via Facebook that are in St. Petersburg and travel to western Europe routinely that might be able to help you sort out a transaction. My Facebook identity is my full name, William Espenshade, go through m,y friends list and you will find some of these people.
 
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Dimitry

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There are direct flights from Los Angeles to Moscow as well. To export from the USA there is a need to declare the export as all tortoises are CITES, Aldabras are CITES II. In theory there is a CITES office in one ministry or another in Moscow (I forget even though I went there) who will want to see they arrived with the CITES docs from the USA. For the USA no vet paper is required for import, but government officials like to see that kind of thing. I don't know if there is a 'health cert' requirement for import into Russia of a tortoise.

In 2012 I tried to find the correct officials to export from Russia, with the help of the curator at the Moscow Zoo. The zoo people said they couldn't even import antivenum for snake bites as they could not get CITES permits. I reached out to the officials with Russian text, went to the office even. Totally rebuffed, they just don't care. Everyone I spoke with wished for "Soviet Times" when a small bride would make anything happen. It now seems these are positions where the employees need only show up for work, not actually do anything. I'm sure my interest was reported as work for three or four days on interaction on that guys monthly "what I did" report.

To be clear there are many dealers of exotics, more or less out in the open who trade in animals that were smuggled in. At the new version of the Moscow bird market dozens of non-native CITES permit type animals were available. Many rare and hard to find species. Most brought in from Indonesia. I spoke with a few private keepers and they said there is more or less no concern with illegal animal activity until you get involved with big cat or bear skins, caviar, and things like that, no one cares about parrots or tortoises etc at the local level.

I also happened to notice that even though Russia has the most advanced screening tools of any international Airports, the attendees to the x-ray devices have become accustomed to those very devices to do all the work in identifying what is in luggage, and they don't spend much time looking themselves. Tortoises don't set of any sound effect for them to look more closely. But that was on the entry side outbound from Moscow.

From elsewhere to Russia is any one's bet on the scrutiny that may be applied to luggage.

During the summer when the monkeys are in their outside pens, and the monkey winter house is empty, they have a temporary reptile exhibit. The guy who runs that during the summer is a better contact than the actual Herp House curator at the Moscow Zoo.

I was not able to make direct contact with Herp people at the St. Petersburg Zoo. There are well know Herp People via Facebook that are in St. Petersburg and travel to western Europe routinely that might be able to help you sort out a transaction. My Facebook identity is my full name, William Espenshade, go through m,y friends list and you will find some of these people.
Are you residing in Moscow now? Frankly speaking I'm not happy with Russian beaurocracy either. sounds funny, but I'm almost sure that it's easier to import something to Russia then to export. We'll see how does it work, if I get success I might help you. So I believe that you interested to import /export something from Russia?
 
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