worried about my Tortie

[onetortie]

I think I could really use some help/advice.

I'm feeling very worried and frustrated. Our Tortie isn't eating. I've been reading (on the Tortoise Trust site) that pellets are not adequately nutritious for tortoises...no matter what the advertising says. Our Tortie is very, very finicky. When we adopted him, he was already on the pellet diet with some greens mixed in. But over time, more and more, he only ate pellets. Now, I can't get him to eat any greens at all. I've been patient...but it's been over a week now, and he's still refusing the greens.

He is a Russian...somewhere around 10-12 years old. He may be older because we don't have much info on him. We've had him about 5 years. He lives indoors in a Zoomed Tortoise house, and now I'm feeling terrible that he hasn't been outside more. I'm trying to figure out how we can build him a nice outdoor home too.

It seems that mostly he hangs out in his hidey hole where it's dark. He doesn't go out much into the full spectrum UVA/B or heat lights. So, I'm also worried that he isn't getting enough of those! When he would eat, he would only eat after soaking in a bath. So, I increased his baths to 2 times a week. I keep his food bowl and water in the "open" part of his house to encourage him out more, but he really only comes out when I take him out to bath him.

I'm feeling like a complete failure with him..and I don't think he's happy.
He is so sweet...but I'm at a loss for what to do. I would willingly give him to someone who would take wonderful care of him. I don't even know how to find such a person.

Please don't judge me...I honestly want him to have a long and happy life. Thanks for any help.

 

[GregUnd]

What temp are you keeping his enclosure at? I'm in no way and expert, I'm a novice, but when you said he eats after soaking, leads me to believe that maybe the room temp is too cool.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

Can you post pics of him and where he is kept? That will help the experts to help you.

 

[GregUnd]

To the experts -

How often should one be soaking their Russian?

 

[onetortie]

What temp are you keeping his enclosure at? I'm in no way and expert, I'm a novice, but when you said he eats after soaking, leads me to believe that maybe the room temp is too cool.

Well, I'm not exactly sure. He's indoors, so it's room temperature. But our home does fluctuate. I'd guess that our house is usually around 72, but his home is warmer because of the heat lamp. But he stays in the dark most of the time.

I should mention that I just broke down and gave him some pellets with his greens. I soak them first to soften them. That's the only way he'll eat them. As soon as I put the pellets down, he came to the bowl to eat them. He sniffed the greens, but then he went right for the pellets. They're called Pretty Pellets. They're made for tortoises...but I'm inclined to believe the Tortoise Trust. Still, I was so afraid of him becoming too weak or dehydrated.

I'm getting ready to post some pics.

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Can you post pics of him and where he is kept? That will help the experts to help you.

OK, these aren't the greatest, but I just took them now.

---

What temp are you keeping his enclosure at? I'm in no way and expert, I'm a novice, but when you said he eats after soaking, leads me to believe that maybe the room temp is too cool.

Well, I'm not exactly sure. He's indoors, so it's room temperature. But our home does fluctuate. I'd guess that our house is usually around 72, but his home is warmer because of the heat lamp. But he stays in the dark most of the time.

I should mention that I just broke down and gave him some pellets with his greens. I soak them first to soften them. That's the only way he'll eat them. As soon as I put the pellets down, he came to the bowl to eat them. He sniffed the greens, but then he went right for the pellets. They're called Pretty Pellets. They're made for tortoises...but I'm inclined to believe the Tortoise Trust. Still, I was so afraid of him becoming too weak or dehydrated.

I'm getting ready to post some pics.

---

Can you post pics of him and where he is kept? That will help the experts to help you.

OK, these aren't the greatest, but I just took them now.

---

---

To the experts -

How often should one be soaking their Russian?

I just read on the Tortoise Trust that 2 x week for about 10 minutes each time is about right. Originally, I had been told about 20 min. once a week. I was also told to soak him in warm water...but no specific temp. was given. I've always been careful to keep the water a comfortable warm but not hot temp.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Does he have a hot basking light? He should be able to get under a hot light that's about 95 degrees. He can't metabolize his food unless he gets that hot. Tortoises thermoregulate their body temps, they move in and out of the light and that's how they control their body temps. It sounds to me like he's not getting hot enough...That's just a guess because I am no expert, also I think those pellets are tortoise crack with little nourishment. I think you need to feed him a more varied diet without those pellets, he's not utilizing any nourishment from his food because he's not hot enough, you need to get him a hot basking light and he needs to go into the sun a bit...

 

[onetortie]

Does he have a hot basking light? He should be able to get under a hot light that's about 95 degrees. He can't metabolize his food unless he gets that hot. Tortoises thermoregulate their body temps, they move in and out of the light and that's how they control their body temps. It sounds to me like he's not getting hot enough...That's just a guess because I am no expert, also I think those pellets are tortoise crack with little nourishment. I think you need to feed him a more varied diet without those pellets, he's not utilizing any nourishment from his food because he's not hot enough, you need to get him a hot basking light and he needs to go into the sun a bit...

Thank you....yes, he does have a hot basking light. The problem is that he doesn't ever choose to use it. I have to move him under it or he'll stay in his dark, hidey hole all day. When I bathe him, I put the bath under his light to help him get warm.

I've been offering him a variety of greens...some organic spring mix as well as dandelion, and other weeds, but he wants nothing to do with them. That's what worries me. I held out for about 9 days without any pellets, but he didn't eat one bite. So just this evening, I gave him some with the greens. I probably shouldn't have, but I don't know how long he could go on without any nourishment.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Has he been in this same enclosure for the five years that you have had him? Just wondering if he has been doing okay up until now. I am sure the experts here can give you some good advice. Good luck with your tort.

 

[Starjelly]

i know it sounds terible, sorry for bad spelling, but i only gave him the option of weeds and lettuces and eventually he ate them.

 

[onetortie]

Has he been in this same enclosure for the five years that you have had him? Just wondering if he has been doing okay up until now. I am sure the experts here can give you some good advice. Good luck with your tort.

Not the entire 5 years. My husband had built him a house...but it was very similar. This one just looked a little nicer and has the proper fitting top on it. We also have dogs and cats and wanted to keep him safe from them.

He's never been particularly active as I've heard they typically are. That's why I often wondered if he's not happy. We do take him outside sometimes, but it seems very scary for him. He just tries to hide. And as soon as he goes back to his house, it's right back to the hidey hole! I'm at a loss for what to do.

---

i know it sounds terible, sorry for bad spelling, but i only gave him the option of weeds and lettuces and eventually he ate them.

how long did you have to wait it out?

 

[Laura]

those are the fruity pebbles right? Several things to try.. Besides making him warmer... take the water that you soaked the pellets in and sprinkle that over the greens, so the greens smell like the pellets.. Or/and chop up the greens and mash them together with the pellets.. slowly decreasing the pellets and increasing the greens.
Also.. change his substrate. pellets are not good to house them on. They mold easily when they get wet, and they dont offer very good traction for them to walk on. Id try a soil mix. Mines loves to burrow down into the dirt. If its cold he doesnt do much, but when its warm,, he drives me nuts walking and pacing.. so i would guess your guy isnt warm enough..

 

[onetortie]

those are the fruity pebbles right? Several things to try.. Besides making him warmer... take the water that you soaked the pellets in and sprinkle that over the greens, so the greens smell like the pellets.. Or/and chop up the greens and mash them together with the pellets.. slowly decreasing the pellets and increasing the greens.
Also.. change his substrate. pellets are not good to house them on. They mold easily when they get wet, and they dont offer very good traction for them to walk on. Id try a soil mix. Mines loves to burrow down into the dirt. If its cold he doesnt do much, but when its warm,, he drives me nuts walking and pacing.. so i would guess your guy isnt warm enough..

That sounds like a good idea. I'll begin tomorrow with mixing the pellets into the greens.
I did once try the soil/sand mix...and the change seemed to "freak him out" a bit, but I'll try it again.
I greatly appreciate all of the help. It's overwhelming how much conflicting information is available. By the way, I posted this question the other day...but I only got a couple of responses..and they were mixed. Is it necessary to treat the tap water with a de-chlorinater before using it for bathing, drinking water, cleaning greens, etc.?

Thanks much,

Lisa

 

[Tom]

I think you are getting good advice above. Here's what I think:
1. You need to know the temp under the basking light. "Warmer than 72" is not necessarily 95-100. It looks like your bulb might be a bit high. Only a decent digital thermometer with remote probe or an infrared temp gun will tell you. Don't guess on this. You need to know the temps in his enclosure. What is the warm side, cool side, basking spot, hidey hole spot and you already told us the night temps are around 72. Some times they will choose security over warmth. Sounds like this is the case with yours. Give him some hides out in the "sunny" portion of the enclosure and block him out of the cold dark hole for a while.

2. Leave your UV bulbs on for 14 hours a day until you get this worked out.

3. In this case I'd soak everyday or every other for a while. 90 degree water for 20 minutes or so.

4. No, you don't need to dechlorinate the tap water.

5. He needs to be out in the sun in a safe, weedy enclosure, as much as the weather will permit. There are lots of ways to build an enclosure. It can be as simple and cheap as a $10 kiddie pool with some substrate and a shade plant, or as elaborate as you want to get. The sun acs like a reptile supercharger. It will get his appetite and digestive system going.

6. Soak his pellets until they are mushy. Finely chop up some greens or good weeds. Mix them up into all one mushy pile. He won't be able to eat around it if its all one big mushy pile. Gradually use more chopped stuff and less of the pellets. You can also gradually switch to a better pellet like Mazuri.

7. You didn't say where you got him, but he's likely an import. Take a fecal sample to a good reptile vet near you. For $20-25 dollars they should be able to tell you if he's harboring any parasites that could be contributing to your problems.

Finally, don't be so hard on yourself. You have done a good job with his set up and your effort shows. Nobody is born knowing all this stuff and we are ALL still learning. The fact that you have only his best interest in mind speaks VOLUMES about you. The fact that you came here, asked your questions, and risked ridicule and spite in an effort to make your tortoises life better shows even more about your good character. I hope these suggestions help. Good luck.

 

[Lilithlee]

This is just a idea, but maybe get a hold of some mazuri and mix it with the pretty Pellets. Mazuri is not as good as greens, but better then pellets. or at least that's what I've read. And then slowly take away the pellets, while adding greens.

Again just an idea.

P.s. I don't own a tortoise yet, but from what I read a lot of tortoise like mazuri, and more importantly so does the tortoise.

 

[onetortie]

I think you are getting good advice above. Here's what I think:
1. You need to know the temp under the basking light. "Warmer than 72" is not necessarily 95-100. It looks like your bulb might be a bit high. Only a decent digital thermometer with remote probe or an infrared temp gun will tell you. Don't guess on this. You need to know the temps in his enclosure. What is the warm side, cool side, basking spot, hidey hole spot and you already told us the night temps are around 72. Some times they will choose security over warmth. Sounds like this is the case with yours. Give him some hides out in the "sunny" portion of the enclosure and block him out of the cold dark hole for a while.

2. Leave your UV bulbs on for 14 hours a day until you get this worked out.

3. In this case I'd soak everyday or every other for a while. 90 degree water for 20 minutes or so.

4. No, you don't need to dechlorinate the tap water.

5. He needs to be out in the sun in a safe, weedy enclosure, as much as the weather will permit. There are lots of ways to build an enclosure. It can be as simple and cheap as a $10 kiddie pool with some substrate and a shade plant, or as elaborate as you want to get. The sun acs like a reptile supercharger. It will get his appetite and digestive system going.

6. Soak his pellets until they are mushy. Finely chop up some greens or good weeds. Mix them up into all one mushy pile. He won't be able to eat around it if its all one big mushy pile. Gradually use more chopped stuff and less of the pellets. You can also gradually switch to a better pellet like Mazuri.

7. You didn't say where you got him, but he's likely an import. Take a fecal sample to a good reptile vet near you. For $20-25 dollars they should be able to tell you if he's harboring any parasites that could be contributing to your problems.

Finally, don't be so hard on yourself. You have done a good job with his set up and your effort shows. Nobody is born knowing all this stuff and we are ALL still learning. The fact that you have only his best interest in mind speaks VOLUMES about you. The fact that you came here, asked your questions, and risked ridicule and spite in an effort to make your tortoises life better shows even more about your good character. I hope these suggestions help. Good luck.

Thank you a million times over! All of these suggestions given me a solid place to begin. Reading all of these thoughtful replies has brought tears to my eyes. Yes, I'm embarrassed for jumping in without educating myself better. But I'm grateful to have support here and right these issues. We adopted Tortie about 5 years ago from a man who owned a tropical aquatics store. I believe this was from his personal collection. He no longer has the store and I can't locate him. The only info we got at the time was that he was in the neighborhood of 7 years old.
By the way, Tortie has seen a veterinarian and he was free of parasites, but that was about a year ago, so he's probably due to go back again.

I'll get a thermometer this week and make some adjustments. I appreciate the concrete instructions. I really needed that right now.
I wish some of you lived here in Kansas!!

 

[Tom]

I wouldn't take him to the vet just yet. He doesn't need the stress of a car ride. I'd just take a fecal sample in.

 

[Laura]

Virtual hug from cali... ( )
you are doing just fine!!

 

[dmmj]

My russians love hibiscus flowers (I call it tortoise crack) I would also warm him up. It is best to get him off of those tortoise pellets ASAP, you can either try tough love, or trickery. Tough love is harder but quicker. If he is healthy he won't starve to death and he will eventually eat, but it is not the easiest thing to do. Trickery takes longer but it is usually easier to do. Before you try either option I would try and locate some hibiscus flowers do you have any? or a neighbor? perhaps a nursery ( chemical free) will let you pick some if you ask nicely. If he does not eat hibiscus flowers(unlikely) or you can't find any then you will have to try trickery or tough love.

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I also agree on the vet thing if he saw one a year ago, he does not really need one yet.

 

[onetortie]

OK, I picked up a thermometer, some dessert sand and dirt. I'm going to work on changing his substrate later today. I'll get pics up as soon as I can. I'll try to find some hibiscus flowers. Though I may not be able to do that today. I do know a nice field of weeds not far from here, and it's not sprayed. I don't know how to identify the weeds other than dandelions. Comparing them to photos is a bit overwhelming and not always accurate. I wish I had botonist friend! I'm going to chip away at this until he is happy!

I'll keep you posted!!

Lisa (in Kansas)

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Lisa:

First of all here's a big hug for you! Just relax. No one's going to judge you.

My first thought when I read this thread was that your UVB light has outlasted its usefulness. He's needing some good old regular sunshine.

Good luck with all your adjustments. Please keep us updated. We all, newbies and old timers, learn from others' experiences.