White Shell

[EppsDynasty]

Here’s a pic of Sally. We rescued her last year and she was White. This picture is from today, so she’s not as white as when we got her. My question is this… what causes the lack of color in the carapace? This is NOT flaky white stuff on the shell, it is the actual shell color.

 

[Tom]

Here’s a pic of Sally. We rescued her last year and she was White. This picture is from today, so she’s not as white as when we got her. My question is this… what causes the lack of color in the carapace? This is NOT flaky white stuff on the shell, it is the actual shell color.View attachment 366395

First, that's not a sulcata. Its a DT. The nuchal scute and the leg scales give it away.

The white looks like typical hard water stains or weathering.

 

[EppsDynasty]

First, that's not a sulcata. Its a DT. The nuchal scute and the leg scales give it away.

The white looks like typical hard water stains or weathering.

HOW STUPID AM I ..... To not even notice the lack of leg spurs, to not recognize the nuchal scute. I feel like the dumbest tort owner there is right now. This tort is one that is ..no was always on FB cause she was loose. She was seized by the animal control here and we were asked if we would take her in. I just assumed she was in terrible shape (chipped shell) and poorly taken care of as the explanation of her condition.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Tom If the white was hard water stains don't ya think they would have washed off? Since she gets a soak everyday? She has had well over 100 soaks and that white goes nowhere, no other tort of ours has Hard Water stains so she would be the only one
And you very well could have told me your an idiot .....It won't hurt my feelings.

 

[Yvonne G]

Looks like she was whitewashed by someone in the past. Either that or she was in a fire.

 

[Tom]

@Tom If the white was hard water stains don't ya think they would have washed off? Since she gets a soak everyday? She has had well over 100 soaks and that white goes nowhere, no other tort of ours has Hard Water stains so she would be the only one
And you very well could have told me your an idiot .....It won't hurt my feelings.

If ever I think you are being an idiot, I will tell you so, and with a smile!

The white part is down on the low part of each scute. If it were a thermal burn or something like that, I would think it would be the opposite. When I see this on large sulcatas that are under heat lamps or CHEs, it is the top of each scute that is discolored and less effect is seen as it radiates out and down. In the case of this tortoise, it appears that a liquid ran down and collected in the lower areas. My guess was mineralization from water repeatedly evaporating over time, but Yvonne's guess about the white washing might do it too.

Out where you guys are, its mostly well water, right? Lots of calcium and minerals in the water, right? Imagine if this tortoise sat under a sprinkler on a regular basis in hot weather and all that well water evaporated leaving behind all those minerals. Like the "scale" in your showers, that stuff would take a long time to wear away. Just a guess based on the pics.

Another possibility is that water collected in those areas during a rain, and then froze if this tort was above ground and got cold enough. The light parts might be damaged keratin.

 

[EppsDynasty]

When we received "Sally" her shell was just about entirely white. This was something that I have never seen before, it effected my actions and plan to take care of her so much I overlooked obvious things like the nuchal scute. This is a mistake I will never make again, a learning experience definitely.
@Tom ... I had read you post in a thread that "Sulcata's are not from the desert they are from forest and grasslands" ... well Tom I introduce the rare Desert Sulcata ..... Thought ya might get a chuckle from that.
So Sally is her name, she was a rescue last year our family has given a home to. She has been one of those torts that is always loose from getting out and posted on FB for help to find her (for years). A person without knowing this found her and posted on FB that they had her. A local woman that went to prison for letting her kids be killed by her boyfriend had just been released and responded she wanted the tort .... So they gave her the tort. The animal services agency here finding this info out confiscated the tort telling her "They had found the owner." We then got the call .... "Of course we'll take her" was our immediate response. As I stated when we received her she was white, almost totally white, something I had never seen or heard of. The immediate need was Temperature, Water/Hydration, Proper Food and Stability of her Environment (meaning the same routine in the same places everyday without any surprises). Stress being one of the major things to avoid, and comfort being the most important. I thought of "Hard Water" first as the cause of the White on her Carapace. It only took a week or so to realize it most likely was not hard water but I was not sure of why or what it was. I settled in to a regular routine with her and sorta forgot about the white, wanted to see what 30 days, 60 days would do. When Koopa came into our lives this is when a big red flag popped up in my head ... Sally didn't look the same. On Monday morning when Tom broke the news about it being a DT not Sulcata and most likely Hard water I made a plan. I would use a soft toothbrush and work on a small area to see if some of the "White Stain" could be removed. So while soaking I would lightly brush in a set area and see what the result would be, since she has to be dry to see the White. This is the result ...So the "Brushing" was the right hand side of the center scutes. It is a little hard to notice but the "Right Hand" side is alot whiter than the left. Once she dried off and it was clear there was even more white, it was clear this was a damaged shell issue ... Keratin. Just as @Tom had said, something somehow had caused the Carapace to be damaged. This will be only 1 of the issues to deal with for her comfort. Here are some pics of Chipping on her shell, An obvious spot where she had at some point have been Chained to something. There is a "Tear" in the scute on the Carapace directly above the anus.
I included the pic of her Head, Neck and front legs because she is pretty "Puffy" here. It can not really be seen in this pic but when she is on the ground it's pretty obvious. Far more "Puffyness" than the other DT's we have, will try to get a good pic of that in the next few days.
I plan on posting the journey we are about to embark on ... Shell repair or Keratin repair.

 

[Tom]

The white stuff, whatever it is, seems to be rubbing off on all the high spots that would receive the most abrasion from the environment, and the white seems most visible and prominent on the low spots that are receiving the least amount of abrasion and wear. This makes me think that Yvonne's idea that the tortoise was white washed at one time might be correct.

 

[_The_Beast_]

The white stuff, whatever it is, seems to be rubbing off on all the high spots that would receive the most abrasion from the environment, and the white seems most visible and prominent on the low spots that are receiving the least amount of abrasion and wear. This makes me think that Yvonne's idea that the tortoise was white washed at one time might be correct.

Apologies I'm advance for potentially thread highjacking. What do you mean by white washed? Like paint white washing? On a tortoise? I'm really hoping this isn't what you mean because if so: What the actual ....?

 

[Yvonne G]

Similar to, but cheaper than paint.

 

[TammyJ]

I also think it was whitewash. People do such things, and worse.

 

[Tom]

Apologies I'm advance for potentially thread highjacking. What do you mean by white washed? Like paint white washing? On a tortoise? I'm really hoping this isn't what you mean because if so: What the actual ....?

Yes. Like paint. We've seen it here a few times. I don't understand why anyone would do that either.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Whitewash .... so another form of hell humans have figured out how to put tortoises in. Am I supposed to try and rub it off? Or has it damaged certain areas and needs to repair itself? Uhhh could it be keratin damage or granulation's? Where I used the toothbrush the "white" got worse. Full disclosure this whitewashing happening is highly likely.


It's a little hard to see but she was Drawn on with something here in the rear center. It was 3 initials ... we assumed this was for identification purposes. This town is less than 50 homes full of .... lets say winners, real winners.
This is a good example of how we became a tortoise rescue before we planned to. We had already owned our property but wanted to "Fort Knox" it with fencing before housing tortoises. Didn't work, the need of a home for tortoises put through hell was prioritized. Still fencing though piece by piece. All the tort outdoor enclosures get double fenced with it being buried 12 inches minimum in the ground.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm pretty sure whitewash is water soluable. That might be why it seemed to get worse as you scrubbed it. How about scrubbing with Dawn dish soap? Works for baby ducks!

 

[Tom]

Where I used the toothbrush the "white" got worse.sures get double fenced with it being buried 12 inches minimum in the ground.

Over time dirt and dust would build up. If you scrubbed with a tooth brush, it could wash away the dirt and grime and make the paint underneath it more visible.

Just offering a plausible explanation for what you are seeing.

 

[TammyJ]

I think it will be ok just left alone, and the tortoise treated as you normally would and do, with lots of soaks, a great diet and just plain good living. No extra scrubbing or experiments needed. My opinion. Sally is in good hands!

 

[EppsDynasty]

I'm pretty sure whitewash is water soluable. That might be why it seemed to get worse as you scrubbed it. How about scrubbing with Dawn dish soap? Works for baby ducks!

So even with a "Dental Pick" when the "White" is picked at or try to scrap it off it only increases the mount of white. If she was Whitewashed, that's gone and the white that's left is damage. So any attempt to remove "White" only brings more white. You can even see the shell crumbling when looking at it with magnification. Scrapping the white part you'll see the smooth top layer be removed and then it starts to turn fibery or stringy, (what you'd think a finger nail would look like when being scraped). When you google white keratin you get ... Granulation as a result. If you use nail polish too much it will cause this "Granulation" or drying out of the Keratin. The remedy for this it says is 1. Stop using nail polish ... 2. Re-hydrate the nail with lactic acid or urea. So granulation's or dry nail will grow out in time, but a tort shell doesn't do that right? A tort shell doesn't act like a toe/finger nail, meaning grow out ... a tort shell doesn't grow out and need to be cut.
I am pretty positive now that you guys are right, it was a substance put on her like paint. I think what we are looking at though is the damage left behind not the color of the substance. I am mulling over getting keratin moisturizer and trying it on a small area, and see if it repairs the keratin.

I think it will be ok just left alone, and the tortoise treated as you normally would and do, with lots of soaks, a great diet and just plain good living. No extra scrubbing or experiments needed. My opinion. Sally is in good hands!

Thank You so much Tammy .... You don't know how much that means. My tort care confidence took a real hit on this one, need to pay more attention to the details I learned.

 

[Yvonne G]

You might try rubbing in some cold pressed coconut oil, allow it to soak in for about 15 minutes, then polish it off with a clean, absorbent cloth. Then just sit back and enjoy your 'white' tortoise for what it is. . . a white tortoise!

 

[EppsDynasty]

You might try rubbing in some cold pressed coconut oil, allow it to soak in for about 15 minutes, then polish it off with a clean, absorbent cloth. Then just sit back and enjoy your 'white' tortoise for what it is. . . a white tortoise!

I bet this ....uhhh ... winner (to be nice) painted her to make sure she, or everybody knew it was hers. I bet she painted her more than once too.
I am going to do some coconut oil I believe ... Heres a question for the experts .... If this is dried out keratin, and re hydrating is what needs to be done, could this be a great thing to do to all torts to help with pyramiding? Meaning a good coconut oil rub down 2 times a week or something like that, would it help keep their shells hydrated or help to slow or prevent pyramiding?

 

[zovick]

I bet this ....uhhh ... winner (to be nice) painted her to make sure she, or everybody knew it was hers. I bet she painted her more than once too.
I am going to do some coconut oil I believe ... Heres a question for the experts .... If this is dried out keratin, and re hydrating is what needs to be done, could this be a great thing to do to all torts to help with pyramiding? Meaning a good coconut oil rub down 2 times a week or something like that, would it help keep their shells hydrated or help to slow or prevent pyramiding?

I can't say for sure, but it certainly wouldn't hurt anything and might help.