What's in that leaf, grocery and garden, published nutrient list.

Kapidolo Farms

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Hey guys, here is some nutrient data not available anywhere else that I have found. I commissioned this analysis, and am posting it here for the TFO community to see. I'll post it on my webpage when I get the rest of the results (a complete amino acid profile).

It's Soursop leaves, a native food for redfoots and yellowfoots. It's also considered a super food, and for that the published accounts are many. But no basic, nutrient profile or fiber profile, stuff us tortoise keepers might want to know. I'll have some at Kapidolo Farms soon.

Also commissioned is the same analysis for the Ginkgo, that will be on Kapidolo Farms web page when complete.

In the mean time, please note, I really care to get the best stuff for tortoise food. Stuff that is organic sourced as is most of the product line.

Tree leaves have a consistent higher calcium: Phosphorus ratio and fiber profile than weedy plants or grasses. And all the tortoise that hang out under trees will eat tree leaves, that's pretty much all of them.

I'm still seeking more good tortoise foods. If you did not notice from the TFO marketplace, all food orders in September ship with two free ounces of organic sourced Cactus flour. FLOUR not flower. It's cactus pad dried and ground up into a flour like consistency. It sprinkles on food like calcium powder, but more palatable. Of course not as full of calcium as straight calcium powder so a bit more frequently than two to three times a week is suggested. It does have much fiber though, so that brings something into the diet that straight calcium powder does not have.
 

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Kapidolo Farms

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Here's the analysis for Ginkgo.


Why Nigeria? Because that's where the study was done. All the other labs around the world focus myopically on the super nutrient aspects.

GINKGO
Ginkgo biloba

No nodes or links in the USDA food database, Feedipedia, TTT, anywhere else that I found. That paper linked above is what I could find. Organic will land at www.KapidoloFarms.com soon.
 

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Spotsmom2020

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Kapidolo Farms

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I did not intend to confuse. They are both okay, as part of a wide varied diet. the problem with many foods is not the food, but the keeper. They will tend to project onto the tortoise a 'favorite' then over feed it. Moderation is the key. Something like this, maybe 5% of once per week meal for grassland or xeric species, twice to three times for forest species.


So can they eat them? I'm new here and not sure how to read these...
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I have both Rooibos and Honeybush at Kapidolo Farms. Here are the test results on what they contribute to the diet. Once again TFO readers get data published no where else.

Both have a good high fiber content, a positive C: P ratio, can be used as soakers (partly why I sought them out) and of coarse they are organic sourced. Early feed back from those who got samples suggest the honeybush is a driver for eating (it does smell like fruit?), while the rooibos is 'just another thing for variety'. I made up several dozen small sample bags - to get one you need to request it in your order in the box labeled 'note to vendor'. Too many extra instructions via email, some txt or PM format, and as after thoughts get unresolved.

In the world of organic sourced tortoise (herbivorous reptile foods) Kapidolo Farms in number 1.
 

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Moozillion

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Will- is this thread for ANY tortoise species in general? My Elsa is a Hermann’s, and I may be giving her a more narrow range of foods than I probably should.
GREAT thread! 😃
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Frankly it's for any animal, leaving what is appropriate to you on how/if to use it.

I have found with products in my online store that there is a split between people who buy based on the species or genus listed for a variety pack versus a nutrient attribute labeled variety pack. One are called 'testudo munch' while another is called 'all aminos'. Many of the same things in both. It's more about how people process information, or what 'sounds' good. Many people just do what their friend dose without much thought at all.

One person will share their purchase of Testudo Munch on social media, and over the next few days I might get dozens of orders for it. Because they like the name and their friend bought it. Some of those same people, and I have spoken with many customers on the phone, will object to the items in the variety pack, when listed as AllAminos and told what aminos are. Too much protein.

The point of this thread is so people can see what's in a food. I started it based on my disgust with the tortoise table. They discount foods' utility for the wrong or inappropriate reasons - reducing the variety people might feed, and in effect do wrong, in my opinion. They conflict themselves in a few instances that I have noticed, like dandelions are a moderate feed with the more information as -

"Dandelions are a firm favourite with tortoises, and although they can be quite high in oxalates (with the older leaves having the highest content), and they also have mild diuretic properties, it is perfectly safe to feed them as part of a wider, varied diet."

- yet many other foods they will place in the 'do not feed group based on oxalates.

That last bit "...it is perfectly safe to feed them as part of a wider, varied diet" should be on so many more of their accounts.

Look here for a comparative of common fed grocery store available greens. (note they quote their source) http://russiantortoise.org/nutritional_analysis_of_kale.htm

The more I play with the day to day diet of some of the tortoises I keep, the more I see that water and fiber are the two most critical factors, and the tortoises' gut sorts out what they need. That of course is a gross simplification, but not too much so.


Will- is this thread for ANY tortoise species in general? My Elsa is a Hermann’s, and I may be giving her a more narrow range of foods than I probably should.
GREAT thread! 😃
 

MEEJogja

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An ambiguous name for a few things...
Lemon Grass Elyonurus muticus https://www.feedipedia.org/node/445 ("Do not quote" warning at site)
Cymbopogon species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymbopogon and is also known as
Citronella https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3580?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

Citronella is a common name for the lemon grasses and I have fed this to tortoises. If they eat it, sparingly, it does not seem to be harmfull. It's not a 'soft' grass and has coarse hairs. Not favorite, but great fiber.
What a fantastic thread!

It led me on a bit of a googling adventure this morning. I hope I'm not polluting this thread too much by sharing... I once went to a market and came home with some 'citronella'. It was a revelation to me that citronella came from the bark of a tree in the same way as cinnamon.

This bark smelled exactly like a citronella candle and I needed no further convincing. On a particularly bad mosquito day I tried to burn some over a hot coal and it filled the house with acrid black smoke so it has been in the spice cupboard for years untouched.

Who knows what I came back with that day, but every source I can find online says it is indeed lemongrass (or a variety thereof). Incidentally you get some very interesting things when you search for citronella and bark:

IMG_20210212_120719.jpg

This is my 'citronella':
IMG_20210212_115716.jpg
 

RosemaryDW

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garland chrysanthemum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glebionis_coronaria who knew?

I bought this and fed it out just because I'm like that. Got it from H-mart in San Diego. I tried a little bit and don't recall anything remarkable about the flavor. I placed it in the diet at such a low % I also don't recall that any tortoises cared about it one way or the other.
I offer it a couple of times a year but my Russian couldn’t be less interested. It has no particular taste to me either but apparently it is good in soup.
 

janevicki

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Dandelion greens

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2960?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

It is true that store dandelions and 'found in the backyard' are different, but 'technically' the same species. What's in your backyard has adapted to your specific environment (meaning climate, lawn watering patterns, and even to some extent your mowing frequency). Those that are cultivated have adapted to that care regime. I have not found any tortoises to seek them out in preference to other greens, but Testudo types are extremely attracted to the flowers.
Kapidolo Farms thank you for all your posts here. So very informative!:) 👍
 

RosemaryDW

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@Kapidolo Farms Will; can you please compare the calcium levels between radish and turnip leaves? I suspect they are as good, or close, but since people tend to eat turnip leaves more than radish leaves we don’t see too much about them. I’ll use them like turnip greens in human food and they cooked up much different than the other calcium rich brassicas.

I asked this question a long time ago but don’t remember an answer.

I’d be grateful if you recognize that I’m an English major and can‘t understand answers much longer than “Just as good;” “Even better!”, “Less calcium but good for other reasons;“ “Meh.” I always give the more scientific answers a shot but the results can be poor. :)
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Turnip greens 140:92. https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/170061/nutrients. mg:mg in 100 grams of raw leaves

Radish greens 280:XXX. https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/nutrition/radish-greens,163857/. mg:mg in 100 grams of raw leaves
Radish greens 260:xxx. https://www.lybrate.com/topic/radish-leaves-benefits. mg:mg in 100 grams of raw leaves
Radish greens 260:104 https://www.onlyfoods.net/radish-greens.html mg:mg in 100 grams of raw leaves

There are many different cultivars of turnips and radishes, I imagine these numbers could be 'bouncy' depending on the actual cultivar.

@RosemaryDW Thanks for bumping me in this thread.
 

RosemaryDW

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It’s your thread; who else would I bump? :)

That last radish ratio is a little better than 2:1 if I understand correctly (which is uncertain). So maybe not quite the same but not bad. Not all owners have turnip leaves at their grocery store but pretty much everyone has radishes.

I feed the daikon leaves; larger and far less fuzzy which seems to make them more attractive. Less fuzzy than turnip leaves, actually. Not common outside of Asian grocers though. The downside is that I sometimes have to buy a giant radish to get the leaves if they aren’t sold separately. There is only so much pickled radish I can eat. :eek:
 

Yvonne G

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@Kapidolo Farms - The experts on the Bearded Dragon Forum tout sprinkling Bee Pollen over the food to encourage a recalcitrant eater to eat. Would this be of any value for tortoises?
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I don't know, I do not see how it would be harmful, bee pollen is an accumulation of pollen from flowers, not a product of anything more than the labor of the bee doing a great deal of work. It may/may not be part of why tortoises like flowers so much. I have noticed spider tortoises will eat the center stalk of the flower, often first, as well as the petals.
@Kapidolo Farms - The experts on the Bearded Dragon Forum tout sprinkling Bee Pollen over the food to encourage a recalcitrant eater to eat. Would this be of any value for tortoises?
 

MEEJogja

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Pollen is sticky by nature and collects particulate pollution from the air. Probably in completely insignificant amounts but perhaps worth mentioning. I certainly don't think honey fortified with pollen is worth the premium that my partner does anyhow.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I have to believe this may be used for environmental pollution monitoring? What do you think?
Pollen is sticky by nature and collects particulate pollution from the air. Probably in completely insignificant amounts but perhaps worth mentioning. I certainly don't think honey fortified with pollen is worth the premium that my partner does anyhow.
 

MEEJogja

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Potentially as an indicator. It's organic and could be isolated from inorganic pollutants quite easily. I suspect completely impractical for most use cases though. Different species have mature stamen for different lengths of time, with some having much more time to collect pollution than others. Also pollen from different species have greatly different surface areas and assumedly different adherency. You could attempt to overcome the challenge of collecting samples from a single species at the exact same stage of its reproductive cycle at different locations and times, or you could just stick a cheap diffusion tube on a tripod and collect samples whenever and wherever you like.
I honestly don't think it is dangerous as far as our torts go, most of us inhale plenty of pollen, probably in larger quantities than you would sprinkle over something to entice a tort. It's just an unknown is all.
 

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From my friend, Google:

Bee pollen is a mixture of flower pollen, nectar, enzymes, honey, wax and bee secretions.

Foraging honey bees collect pollen from plants and transport it to the beehive, where it’s stored and used as food for the colony .

Bee pollen shouldn’t be confused with other bee products such as honey, royal jelly or honeycomb. These products may not contain pollen or may contain other substances.

Recently, bee pollen has gained traction in the health community because it’s loaded with nutrients, amino acids, vitamins, lipids and over 250 active substances
 
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