Torts Biting

[Lucymay]

I know this might be a crazy question but here goes....

We have 4 Russians, 3 have been with us for about 5 years. Our new baby (Pasha) we got earlier this year. The older 3 had been torturing little Pasha, humping him, biting him... it broke my heart. So obviously, we separated him from the others. We have a very large outdoor pen for them with lots of tunnels and places to hide, nothing helped. They would find him, or he would go looking for them. He's been separated now for the better part of this year. Every now and then I try to put them together but it doesn't work.

Today, my husband came up with an idea... but before I would do this, I thought I would check with all of you. He suggested putting something like hot sauce on Pasha's feet (that's where they try to bite him). Maybe the smell (can they smell?) or the taste would make them leave Pasha alone. But, would that hurt them or Pasha?

If anyone has any thoughts, I would love to hear them. This is my go-to forum whenever I need help. You guys all rock! Thanks.

 

[wellington]

That is really animal cruelty in my eyes. Most likely you will always have to keep them separated. Thats just how it might have to be. Tortoises are loners anyway. The others at some point may have to be separated also, unless they are the right sex ratio and have an appropriate size enclosure.

 

[jaizei]

Is the outdoor pen the same pen you had for the 3 before you got Pasha? When introducing new animals, it can help to do it in neutral territory. How great is the size discrepancy?

 

[shellysmom]

I would say no on the hot sauce, because if one of them rubbed against it and got it in their eyes it would be extremely painful. It sounds like for whatever reason the others really don't want Pasha around, so in order for everyone to stay safe they should probably just remain separated.

 

[Tom]

They might like the hot sauce. It doesn't always have the same effect on animals as it does on us. I think you should grow Pasha up until he's closer to their size and then make a new pen somewhere that none of them have ever been. Introduce them all in neutral territory. It might also help to have more than just one newcomer too. Then the attention would be divided up more.

Unfortunately, this is the nature of russians. They are feisty little buggers. Be glad that your other three are getting along so well, and be prepared for the long standing peace to end one day.

 

[Laurie]

Big old NO to the hot sauce, I'm going to agree with Barb on this, I think it's borderline animal cruelty. I would separate them.

 

[dmmj]

I would say no to the hot sauce, it would most likely rub off before it could do anything anyways. You should count yourself lucky your three get along, it may not always be the case. I would keep them separated until the size difference is gone, even then it may be hopeless, but at least the little one will be bigger.

 

[Lucymay]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

All 4 are male and the outdoor pen is 11' x 17', it is the same pen each year after they hybernate. We have separated a 'room' for Pasha to be by himself. Their size difference is noticeable. We thought that maybe as he grows they will get along better. I know they are supposed to be loners, but the 3 older ones definitely like being together... they don't fight and are always staying around each other. I guess we will leave them as is for now.

btw... responses that are helpful and informative are what I was looking for. To suggest animal cruelty was not helpful. We take very good care of our tortoises.

 

[Laurie]

Sorry if I offended you, but I think the idea to put hot sauce on a tortoise is a bad one. I think the same of people who put hot sauce in their childs mouth as a punishment for swearing. I'm not suggesting you would do that I just think putting hot sauce on something is not a nice thing to do. Even if the taste doesn't bother them, what if it gets in their eyes? What about the substrate sticking to to them because of it? You are suggesting it to be used as a punishment to a tortoise for doing what a tortoise does, he's not going enjoy it and it may even burn his tongue/eyes. So I'm not trying to offend you, but I do think it would be a form of animal cruelty. I am not suggesting you don't take good care of your tortoises! I think the IDEA is borderline cruelty. Just my two cents.

 

[fbsmith3]

Just for information:
Hot sauce has Capsaicin. This chemical can BURN skin, it's in sports cream and Ben Gay cream. In the least he would be unconfortable and try to get it off.

Hope that helps, maybe you should look into rehoming him or make him a different enclosure.

I hope everything works out for you.

 

[wellington]

Ditto with Laurie and you asked the question. Personally to even think that would be a solution doesn't sit good with me. But again, you asked. I also made a suggestion.

 

[Lucymay]

I won't be using hot sauce, and only asked the question thinking that maybe there was something that could be put onto Pasha that would taste bad to the others, so they wouldn't bite him. I would never want to hurt any of my torts.

I will keep them separated. Thanks for the responses.

 

[TortoiseBoy1999]

I think you guys came off a LITTLE to harsh to Lucymay....

 

[Laurie]

I think you guys came off a LITTLE to harsh to Lucymay....

Well, then I apologize, that was not my intention

 

[sibi]

Hot sauce may deter the others, but unfortunately, it may also burn Pasha's skin. But since torts skin is pretty tough, perhaps it may burn the tongues of the other torts more. It's worth a try. Sooner or later, Pasha will be big enough that the others won't gang up on her. That's what I'm rooting for.

I know this might be a crazy question but here goes....

We have 4 Russians, 3 have been with us for about 5 years. Our new baby (Pasha) we got earlier this year. The older 3 had been torturing little Pasha, humping him, biting him... it broke my heart. So obviously, we separated him from the others. We have a very large outdoor pen for them with lots of tunnels and places to hide, nothing helped. They would find him, or he would go looking for them. He's been separated now for the better part of this year. Every now and then I try to put them together but it doesn't work.

Today, my husband came up with an idea... but before I would do this, I thought I would check with all of you. He suggested putting something like hot sauce on Pasha's feet (that's where they try to bite him). Maybe the smell (can they smell?) or the taste would make them leave Pasha alone. But, would that hurt them or Pasha?

If anyone has any thoughts, I would love to hear them. This is my go-to forum whenever I need help. You guys all rock! Thanks.

 

[lynnedit]

Bottom line is that it is lucky when Russian torts get along in a group. Pasha may be a female, or the males may hope he/she is. There probably isn't anything you can do to change this behavior, especially if Pasha does turn out to be a female.
You did right by separating them, and giving Pasha better quality of life.

 

[Tom]

I'm still shocked that you have three mature males living together without tearing each other apart. Pretty cool.

For the record, I don't think using a taste deterrent is cruel. I just don't think it will work. And even if it did stop them from actually putting their mouths on Pasha, they would still bully and intimidate him in other ways.

To more clearly answer your original question, I don't know of any way to make Russians like each other or not pick on each other, other than separation. Sorry.

 

[srkarpen]

Heres an idea that I have no merits for suggesting: what if you tried I trouncing them to each other with a screen in between them. Something where they can see each other but can't physically interact. I've done this with 2 dogs or a dog and a cat with a chain link fence between thems. It gives them a chance to check each other out without any possibility or going at it with each other. obviously a chain link fence might not be right with the torts but something similar may help.

Again, I'm certainly no expert and have no basis for this other than I've done it with other pets. It's hard to compare cats/dogs to tortoises but who knows...

 

[TortoiseBoy1999]

Well, then I apologize, that was not my intention

I'M not trying to be rude to YOU either, I just wanted to let you know

 

[Lucymay]

I think you guys came off a LITTLE to harsh to Lucymay....

Thank you.