torts (argument about humidity for Russians)

[Jay Bagley]

Wow no books no videos. Where would you like him to get his information? Not on here from you guys. He made a comment that you guys have blown so out of proportion my head is spinning. If someone stopped giving their tortoise humidity because one person said


Wow! Really, no books no youtube! Where , pray tell, would you like for him to get his knowledge? I have to say I’m very disappointed in this forum. I really believed you guys were forward thinkers ; believing that even experts ( as members on here like to call themselves) we’re students for life... no need to comment back. I’ve heard you loud and clear. It’s a shame I could have learn a lot from this forum and this forum could have learned a lot from us... I can’t continue with a group of people that believes your way is the only way. And you did when you said you don’t agree with me he should read books and watch videos. And Tom liked your post. I can’t tell you how shocked and disappointed I’m am in the attitude of the members on this forum. Quote to live by:

Tammie, with all due respect you come across like you like to give lectures as well. Before I found this forum, I got all of my information off the internet and YouTube. That is why I am in the boat I am now, my tortoise is being raised bone dry which I am happy to say I am in the process of correcting, thanks to the wonderful members of this forum and they're great advice. When I asked a question on here, I got hit with what is my humidity, what is my temperature, let me see pictures of your enclosure, and when I did they let me know I was doing a lot of things wrong. I did not let myself get offended by this, I have come to learn the majority of the people on here are just very honest and very direct. If we're doing something wrong, they don't have a problem telling us. Reason being, in a nutshell they just really care. They want the best for our tortoises, and they've already been through all the mistakes and are doing things the proper way now. I have read the last few post, and it seems like you either want an argument or to just cause drama. Just like the 14 year old, I hope you stick around and listen, because a good majority of the stuff you will find in books, the internet, and on YouTube is just outdated garbage. And what you learn here, it's just too valuable to walk away from.

 

[Tammie]

Tammie, with all due respect you come across like you like to give lectures as well. Before I found this forum, I got all of my information off the internet and YouTube. That is why I am in the boat I am now, my tortoise is being raised bone dry which I am happy to say I am in the process of correcting, thanks to the wonderful members of this forum and they're great advice. When I asked a question on here, I got hit with what is my humidity, what is my temperature, let me see pictures of your enclosure, and when I did they let me know I was doing a lot of things wrong. I did not let myself get offended by this, I have come to learn the majority of the people on here are just very honest and very direct. If we're doing something wrong, they don't have a problem telling us. Reason being, in a nutshell they just really care. They want the best for our tortoises, and they've already been through all the mistakes and are doing things the proper way now. I have read the last few post, and it seems like you either want an argument or to just cause drama. Just like the 14 year old, I hope you stick around and listen, because a good majority of the stuff you will find in books, the internet, and on YouTube is just outdated garbage. And what you learn here, it's just too valuable to walk away from.

I never came off like I like to give lectures. I read the treads on here for a year before I commented on one thread. Adults being rude to a 14 yr old kid. This whole thing is over a stupid rash comment. Each time someone posted something to me I tried very hard to be positive even tho some comments they were saying are absolutely incorrect. Example: Russian don’t have issues with humidity! They absolutely do. And any adult tortoise that change from high humidity to drier environment or drier to higher humidity needs to be acclimated to that environment. But I never said a word to her or correct her. I could have overwhelmed her with RBC and oxygen content and perfusion issues if I wanted to embarrass her lack of knowledge. I’m pissed now. It was a comment about a rash for goodness sakes. To be honest with you she has no clue what she is talking. And she has the nerve to tell me that encouraging someone to read all the books the can watch all the videos they can learn reasesrch from everyone is not appropriate. Are you kidding me! This isn’t a dictatorship! Yes I was frustrated as well all the misinformation. Do this no do that! I know I’ve been there as well. I did find Tom info on humidity and yes it does seem like it works and could very well be the answer but it takes many years for a theory to be proven. And others before him also thought their theories were correct as well.
So please I’ve read post on here for over a yr and some where so out there I laughed out loud but never one time did I ever comment. I wanted to learn I took notes and let the mean nasty post back and fourth go thru one ear and out the other. That was until they were jumping down a kids throat about a rash comment that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE! There I used caps. I hope that does hurt your ears Tom. I hope y’all don’t hurt yourself from the long fall from the high perch you’ve placed yourself on. The difference between me and that kid is I’m adult I have absolutely no doubt I’m right and it won’t hurt my feeling or self esteem what so ever. The kid is still in that insecure delicate stage. I have 10 tortoise all do well and yes I’m doing Tom theory to a tee and I do believe he is onto something is just too bad I lost all respect for him when he liked her post . Good luck to you.

 

[Tammie]

I never came off like I like to give lectures. I read the treads on here for a year before I commented on one thread. Adults being rude to a 14 yr old kid. This whole thing is over a stupid rash comment. Each time someone posted something to me I tried very hard to be positive even tho some comments they were saying are absolutely incorrect. Example: Russian don’t have issues with humidity! They absolutely do. And any adult tortoise that change from high humidity to drier environment or drier to higher humidity needs to be acclimated to that environment. But I never said a word to her or correct her. I could have overwhelmed her with RBC and oxygen content and perfusion issues if I wanted to embarrass her lack of knowledge. I’m pissed now. It was a comment about a rash for goodness sakes. To be honest with you she has no clue what she is talking. And she has the nerve to tell me that encouraging someone to read all the books the can watch all the videos they can learn reasesrch from everyone is not appropriate. Are you kidding me! This isn’t a dictatorship! Yes I was frustrated as well all the misinformation. Do this no do that! I know I’ve been there as well. I did find Tom info on humidity and yes it does seem like it works and could very well be the answer but it takes many years for a theory to be proven. And others before him also thought their theories were correct as well.
So please I’ve read post on here for over a yr and some where so out there I laughed out loud but never one time did I ever comment. I wanted to learn I took notes and let the mean nasty post back and fourth go thru one ear and out the other. That was until they were jumping down a kids throat about a rash comment that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE! There I used caps. I hope that does hurt your ears Tom. I hope y’all don’t hurt yourself from the long fall from the high perch you’ve placed yourself on. The difference between me and that kid is I’m adult I have absolutely no doubt I’m right and it won’t hurt my feeling or self esteem what so ever. The kid is still in that insecure delicate stage. I have 10 tortoise all do well and yes I’m doing Tom theory to a tee and I do believe he is onto something is just too bad I lost all respect for him when he liked her post . Good luck to you.

Sorry you don’t deserve my attitude. I was just worked up from all the post and I took it out on you. And that wasn’t fair but it sure felt good getting all that off my shoulders. Sorry again please don’t take it personal. Glad your finding great advice here... here are pics of some of mine.

 

[pillow]

They're so adorable @Tammie

 

[Jay Bagley]

Sorry you don’t deserve my attitude. I was just worked up from all the post and I took it out on you. And that wasn’t fair but it sure felt good getting all that off my shoulders. Sorry again please don’t take it personal. Glad your finding great advice here... here are pics of some of mine.

They are very cute, I thought you were going to hyperventilate during that post to me. LOL

 

[Jay Bagley]

They are very cute, I thought you were going to hyperventilate during that post to me. LOL

Ps..the experts u are taking jabs at have done wonders for the tortoise community. Have a good day.

 

[Tammie]

They are very cute, I thought you were going to hyperventilate during that post to me. LOL

Lol... so sorry but I do feel better. You make a great sounding board.

Ps..the experts u are taking jabs at have done wonders for the tortoise community. Have a good day.

yes they have and I have given them credit for that. And I will cond. to encourage people to follow Tom’s theory on humidity. That 14 yr old could be the future reptile expert... I will cont. to read post on this forum because I told that 14 yr old I would be hear waiting to hear about all he has learned. And I intend to keep that promise...

 

[Tom]

I never came off like I like to give lectures. I read the treads on here for a year before I commented on one thread. Adults being rude to a 14 yr old kid. This whole thing is over a stupid rash comment. Each time someone posted something to me I tried very hard to be positive even tho some comments they were saying are absolutely incorrect. Example: Russian don’t have issues with humidity! They absolutely do. And any adult tortoise that change from high humidity to drier environment or drier to higher humidity needs to be acclimated to that environment. But I never said a word to her or correct her. I could have overwhelmed her with RBC and oxygen content and perfusion issues if I wanted to embarrass her lack of knowledge. I’m pissed now. It was a comment about a rash for goodness sakes. To be honest with you she has no clue what she is talking. And she has the nerve to tell me that encouraging someone to read all the books the can watch all the videos they can learn reasesrch from everyone is not appropriate. Are you kidding me! This isn’t a dictatorship! Yes I was frustrated as well all the misinformation. Do this no do that! I know I’ve been there as well. I did find Tom info on humidity and yes it does seem like it works and could very well be the answer but it takes many years for a theory to be proven. And others before him also thought their theories were correct as well.
So please I’ve read post on here for over a yr and some where so out there I laughed out loud but never one time did I ever comment. I wanted to learn I took notes and let the mean nasty post back and fourth go thru one ear and out the other. That was until they were jumping down a kids throat about a rash comment that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE! There I used caps. I hope that does hurt your ears Tom. I hope y’all don’t hurt yourself from the long fall from the high perch you’ve placed yourself on. The difference between me and that kid is I’m adult I have absolutely no doubt I’m right and it won’t hurt my feeling or self esteem what so ever. The kid is still in that insecure delicate stage. I have 10 tortoise all do well and yes I’m doing Tom theory to a tee and I do believe he is onto something is just too bad I lost all respect for him when he liked her post . Good luck to you.

I realize you were doing a little venting here, but your points are valid and understandable. There are a couple of things that will be a little more clear with a little more explanation.

Thing 1: I don't think you realize the history with our young friend Tort Dude here on the forum. Your suppositions, and your emotional reaction, seem to be based on the events of this one thread. There has been a long history of this kiddo straying way outside his lane, making baseless assertions, and making assertions based on old, outdated info that has been circulating for decades. We've been trying to eradicate this wrong, harmful info for many years here, and its very frustrating to have a new person, child or adult, come along and start parroting the old incorrect, tortoise killing info, especially when we know the parroter doesn't have any experience to base their wrong assertions on. That is the reason why you see so many people jumping all over the situation when new people do that. In the case of our Tort Dude, several other members, both other kids and some of the adults have been talking to him in private conversations and trying to befriend him and explain these things to him. There is even a recent thread that several of our teenage tortoise keeping members started to commiserate with each other. My point here is that this has been building for a while. Tort Dude is a young man with limited experience and he's making assertions about all sorts of subjects and giving advice on care points that he has zero experience with. He's been treated with a lot of respect, courtesy and patience over the last several weeks and months that he's been a member here. He chose to ignore these attempts at reaching out and sharing the correct info with him, and then he escalated the confrontation with the first post of this thread. If you click on his name you can go back and look at his previous activity on this forum, and the responses he got.

This brings me to thing 2: I can see why you think we've placed ourselves on some sort of elevated pedestal above the rest of the tortoise world. In essence, we have. But this is not done arbitrarily or because we think we're superior. It is because so many of us long term keepers here have been following that old wrong advice for decades and it has resulted in tortoise death and disfigurement, and decades of failure. It has been an obsession of mine, and several other long term keepers here to figure out this mystery and solve the problems. After nearly two decades of failure, I had a breakthrough 10 years ago. I encountered enormous resistance from some of the tortoise community at large because what I was saying was the opposite of what EVERYONE had been taught to do for decades. I was insulted, belittled, berated, dismissed, attacked and several people attempted some pretty heavy character assassination. I persisted and put my money where my mouth was. I invited my critics to put up or shut up, and I did the same. In time, they shut up because I proved them all wrong. Many of them left the forum. Then, thousands of people all over the world began copying my "experiment" and getting the same excellent results. Meanwhile, most the people that have been keeping, breeding and caring for tortoises for decades have not heard about this new info, or if they have heard they dismissed it as wrong info from some internet kook. The result of this is that nearly every other source of info outside of this forum is still promoting the same old, out-dated, wrong info. Desert animals, get their water from their food, need a dry environment or they will get shell rot and respiratory infections, etc… You now know first hand that this info is wrong, but you are among an elite minority in the world that has been exposed to this info and given it a chance. Most vets, breeders, books and long term keepers are still saying the old wrong stuff. So when we tell people NOT to read books, watch Youtube tortoise videos or ask a vet or breeder it is not because we think we are better than everyone else, it is because we know they are going to be bombarded by the same, old, out-dated, incorrect info from each of these sources, and all of it will agree with the other sites, and disagree with what we say here. Its not the we are "better". It is that almost everything else out there will universally give a new tortoise keeper or young person information that will cause pyramiding, sickness or death.

I hope this puts things into a better perspective about where I am coming from and why I liked Barb's post.

 

[wellington]

Wow no books no videos. Where would you like him to get his information? Not on here from you guys. He made a comment that you guys have blown so out of proportion my head is spinning. If someone stopped giving their tortoise humidity because one person said


Wow! Really, no books no youtube! Where , pray tell, would you like for him to get his knowledge? I have to say I’m very disappointed in this forum. I really believed you guys were forward thinkers ; believing that even experts ( as members on here like to call themselves) we’re students for life... no need to comment back. I’ve heard you loud and clear. It’s a shame I could have learn a lot from this forum and this forum could have learned a lot from us... I can’t continue with a group of people that believes your way is the only way. And you did when you said you don’t agree with me he should read books and watch videos. And Tom liked your post. I can’t tell you how shocked and disappointed I’m am in the attitude of the members on this forum. Quote to live by:

These animals lives we are talking about here. The members of this forum are always in for learning more and we all know there is a lot more too learn. But to sit back while advice is being given that we know is bad, well that doesn't make us very good animal care givers now does it. For being so new to a group, you sure seem to know all about what the many years the experienced members have put in to get people to understand what is needed in giving proper care to a tortoise. An animal that most vets don't have the correct info on. Now you want to give bad info and I or we are suppose to just shut up and let you? I think not.
The OP can still read all the info on this forum and never, ever, have to say/write a word. I not going to send him to all the bad places to get info just because he doesn't know how to participate in a forum.
Go if you want, that's your right. If you want the best care and the most correct info for your animal then you will stay. Stay, realizing it's about the well being of the animal first and foremost. At least with me. Coddling egos or stepped on toes because they can't handle the truth is for someone else to do, that's not my main concern.

 

[wellington]

I never came off like I like to give lectures. I read the treads on here for a year before I commented on one thread. Adults being rude to a 14 yr old kid. This whole thing is over a stupid rash comment. Each time someone posted something to me I tried very hard to be positive even tho some comments they were saying are absolutely incorrect. Example: Russian don’t have issues with humidity! They absolutely do. And any adult tortoise that change from high humidity to drier environment or drier to higher humidity needs to be acclimated to that environment. But I never said a word to her or correct her. I could have overwhelmed her with RBC and oxygen content and perfusion issues if I wanted to embarrass her lack of knowledge. I’m pissed now. It was a comment about a rash for goodness sakes. To be honest with you she has no clue what she is talking. And she has the nerve to tell me that encouraging someone to read all the books the can watch all the videos they can learn reasesrch from everyone is not appropriate. Are you kidding me! This isn’t a dictatorship! Yes I was frustrated as well all the misinformation. Do this no do that! I know I’ve been there as well. I did find Tom info on humidity and yes it does seem like it works and could very well be the answer but it takes many years for a theory to be proven. And others before him also thought their theories were correct as well.
So please I’ve read post on here for over a yr and some where so out there I laughed out loud but never one time did I ever comment. I wanted to learn I took notes and let the mean nasty post back and fourth go thru one ear and out the other. That was until they were jumping down a kids throat about a rash comment that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE! There I used caps. I hope that does hurt your ears Tom. I hope y’all don’t hurt yourself from the long fall from the high perch you’ve placed yourself on. The difference between me and that kid is I’m adult I have absolutely no doubt I’m right and it won’t hurt my feeling or self esteem what so ever. The kid is still in that insecure delicate stage. I have 10 tortoise all do well and yes I’m doing Tom theory to a tee and I do believe he is onto something is just too bad I lost all respect for him when he liked her post . Good luck to you.

Sounds to me like you are trying your hardest to fight back against all the correct info. It's not just a rash. It's a living breathing tortoise should the wrong person take hold of the original post.
Btw, don't think you can out smart anyone in a forum you don't even know. You just might be the one embarrassed!

 

[wellington]

I think this thread is about done now. If you have more to say about the subject go ahead. If you just want to argue or call names or say who is smart and who isn't, then don't bother or the thread will have to be closed.

 

[Tammie]

I think this thread is about done now. If you have more to say about the subject go ahead. If you just want to argue or call names or say who is smart and who isn't, then don't bother or the thread will have to be closed.

Never called anyone names, only answered post that were sent to me so “technically “ that’s not arguing. It’s not worth using any more vocabulary responding to your post anymore. I’ll answer Tom’s post to me. It was eloquent and makes one want to learn and dialogue.

 

[wellington]

Never called anyone names, only answered post that were sent to me so “technically “ that’s not arguing. It’s not worth using any more vocabulary responding to your post anymore. I’ll answer Tom’s post to me. It was eloquent and makes one want to learn and dialogue.

Good!