Tortoise Newbie - advice needed!

[Chelsea]

I have just gotten 3 Hermanns tortoises from a friend who could no longer look after them. One is 18 months old, and the other two are 3yrs old. I'm just after some advice really. I've read and re-read all the information I could find but a lot of it is conflicting and I'm getting confused! (I was looking into getting torts long before these came along, I just couldn't let the oppertunity pass!)

Firstly, I wanted to check that their weights and size are ok...

The youngest one weighs 198 grams, and is 80mm long. The biggest of the older two weighs 411g and is 110mm long, while the other weighs the same (411g) but is 150mm long. Does all this sound ok? Now that the bigger two are over 100mm do I need to get them microchipped? Again, I've read conflicting information on this. Do they only need chipping if they breed and I sell the offspring?

When I was measuring them, I noticed that the plastron of the smallest tortoise has a slight 'give' to it when I put pressure on it. Is this just because it's young and not properly developed? I give them all a calcium suppliment with their food, and I know that my friend did this every day too. They have a MVB, so I don't think it's anything to do with lack of UV (I've read this can cause shell problems).

The biggest of the older two seems to sleep and hide an awful lot. It doesn't eat or bask very much at all. The only time I see it eating is if I'm putting it back in the enclosure after a bath and there is food avaliable. Otherwise it just goes back under the hide and stays there. Is this normal? The smallest tort charges around loads! It is eating and drinking lots, basking lots and is generally a lot more lively. The middle tortoise is somewhere inbetween the two!

Next, their enclosure. It is 5ft by 2ft. I know this isn't big enough for the three of them, and as soon as I can afford it, I'm extending it upwards, probably so it has 3 'floors' as I'm limited on space. I figured building upwards was a good way to solve the problem. As for an outdoor enclosure for the warmer weather... Would a large paddling pool work, if I put substrate, plants etc in there? I'm living with grandparents at the moment, and they're very garden-proud. No chance of building/digging for an enclosure!

Sorry about all the questions, I just want to make sure I give my little ones as good a life as I possibly can!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Chelsea:

to the forum!!

We have a fellow forum member who raises Hermann's tortoises and he has written a care sheet for us:

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-1000.html

After you've read the care sheet, if you have specific questions, there are folks here on the forum who will be happy to help you.

 

[Tom]

Congratulations on the new torts and welcome to the forum. Sorry about all the conflicting info out there in the world. Animal husbandry is an art form, not a science. Everyone has had different experiences and found different things to work for them.

It has been a few years since I messed with Hermanns torts, but I can share some general tortoise info with you. Here's my opinion on a few things:

1. There is a large range of healthy size and weight. Its hard to tell from that alone if they are healthy or not. Its more of an overall view with several factors, that being just one. I had to get out my conversion tables to check on these, but they seem reasonably good.

2. I've never heard of any requirement for microchipping here in the USA. You'll have to check local laws in your area, if you are in another country.

3. Your soft plastron could be a problem. I have found the indoor flourescent UV lights to be ineffective at any distance. Others think they are great. I have had to rescue many a reptile with MBD out from under some very expensive lighting set-ups. The newer, self-ballasted, mercury-vapor lamps seem, to me, to be better, but still not a substitute for real, direct sunshine. Get them all SAFELY outside in the sun as much as possible. These bulbs are marketed under a variety of names and brands, but are usually available in a 160 watt flood and a 100 watt spot configuration. You may need to get him to a vet for some calcium injection or liquid calcium, depending upon how much "give" there is. Remember, all the calcium in the world won't help if their body can't use it. They need proper UV and or vitamin D3 to use calcium. Be careful as too much D3 can be dangerous. That's a big reason I prefer sunshine. They make their own D3, in the correct amount, for that time of year, growth cycle, size, age, weather, diet, calcium intake, etc...

4. Does your calcium supplement have D3 in it? If not, you may need some. If yes, I think daily supplementation is too much. If they are getting a good diet and proper UV (hopefully, direct sunshine) then it is debatable whether you need any supplementation at all. Most will agree that 2 or 3 times a week, in small amounts, is about right for calcium supplementation for young growing torts. If mine are outside at least once or twice a week for a couple of hours, I use no D3. If they are stuck inside for weeks on end I give them a sprinkling of calcium with D3 twice a week.

5. Torts have wildly varied temperaments and personalities. Yours could be just a shy one. On the other hand, it could be any of the following or something entirely different: Sometimes they slow down in the winter even if you don't try to hibernate them. What are your temps? Cool side, warm side, basking SPOT? Sometimes housing multiple individuals together is stressful. They don't hang out in groups in the wild, except for breeding. My Scooter, a sulcatta, used to dominate my Bert. Not directly or violently. Just by his presence. Bert seems much happier and more active now that he's alone. The size of the enclosure, the decor, or lack there of, or the substrate could all be unsuitable to your shy one.

Your idea for upward expansion is interesting. I'd love to see this when you are done. I try to incorporate hills and elevation changes in to all of my outdoor pens and all of my species seem to enjoy climbing. A nice, gently sloping ramp with an appropriate guard rail would be good exercise. You could experiment with different temps, substrates and humidity levels and see if they seem to have preferences. That will be quite an engineering feat with heating and lighting on each level. Now you've got the wheels turning in my head.

Good luck to you and please keep us posted.

 

[Chelsea]

Thanks for the replies, I had a good look through that care sheet and it helped a lot

They don't have a source of direct sunshine at the moment because the weather here is bad (snowing...again!), but the calcium suppliment has D3 in it, and they have a MVB. Cool temperatures are around 68/70 during the day, no less than 59 at night (The house is on a thermostat) Their basking spot is at the opposite end of their table, and that hits between 89 and 95 degrees - depending on if the heating is on in the house or not.

I'm looking forward to giving the extension a go. On the whole, they love climbing (the shy one being the only exception) and I often find them on top of their habba huts!

 

[Ozric]

Hi Chelsea. Just on the building upwards aspect of it- sounds like you might be planning something like three tier bunk beds? This can work, but you might end up needing a lot of height because there can be heat build up in a confined space. Your lamp needs to be hung a distance from the substrate and if there is a wooden roof right there it can lead to a problem.

Younger tortoises do not have a fully rigid shell yet so the slight 'give' you describe might not be a problem at all. But in general the shell of juveniles and adults should be firm.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Welcome, Chelsea.

Do you have any photos of your new mini-herd and their set-up? We have lots of expert and experienced Hermann's keepers like Roachman who can offer advice and criticism to help you create the best conditions for your chiclets to grow healthy and strong (inlcuding those soft shells)!

Keep asking those questions, and here's the "How to Post Photos" thread:

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5245.html

 

[Chelsea]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I can't post photos of their enclosure yet, as I'm not at home and don't have any on my laptop. I'll post some ASAP though

I've just put another post up regarding sexing my tortoises, and a bit of a behavioural issue I'm having.