Tortoise Nest Temperature Data Collection

CarolM

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@CarolM I have 3 data loggers all set and ready to go to you. I have been ill the past few days and with all the holiday rush, should get them mailed to you Monday. They estimate with the holidays it may take about 10 days for you to get them. It is postal service so sent to your home address.

They are already running and set to record every 30 minutes. That give a great data set of daily swings and will record for up to 666 days - plenty long. all you need to do is place 2 in nest locations (for redundancy) and one for ambient air recording.

I love that you have the sensorpush also running now. It will give us readings as we go instead of having to wait to retrieve the data loggers at the end before we see any data.

Thank you! And... Merry Christmas to you!
Thank you Mark. I will keep an eye out for them.
 

CarolM

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@CarolM I have 3 data loggers all set and ready to go to you. I have been ill the past few days and with all the holiday rush, should get them mailed to you Monday. They estimate with the holidays it may take about 10 days for you to get them. It is postal service so sent to your home address.

They are already running and set to record every 30 minutes. That give a great data set of daily swings and will record for up to 666 days - plenty long. all you need to do is place 2 in nest locations (for redundancy) and one for ambient air recording.

I love that you have the sensorpush also running now. It will give us readings as we go instead of having to wait to retrieve the data loggers at the end before we see any data.

Thank you! And... Merry Christmas to you!
I am more than happy to help. Please just let me know if you are sending them to the street address I gave or the P.O. Box address so that I know where to look out for them. As the street address is my work address and the P.O. Box address is my personal box at the post office.
 

kingsley

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@kingsley Do you have some raw data for Sri Lankan nests? Could I possibly get the raw data from the data loggers as well. I am compiling a set of charts from as many species as possible.
Hi Mark, I have no nest data on hand but will try to get you the information currently available if the have any at all. If not you are more than welcome to what we get in the future. My focus is an area that gets completely flooded during the monsoons for days on end that produces lots of babies.
 

Olddog

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I have no knowledge of the species involved and the following may be without merit for your purposes. From an experimental design standpoint, the following graph strongly suggests to me the potential benefit of placing sensors with nesting eggs as well as simultaneously monitoring outdoor temperatures.
View attachment 259844
Although I do believe there is some small amount of heat generated by developing embryos, I would think the bulk of the difference here is that we are looking at a month where outside temperatures are dropping as opposed to all the previous months where average monthly temperatures are rising. The more stable ground temperatures would be effecting this more. Ground temperatures lag behind air temperatures in the annual change. At the depth of a galop nest this could easily be what is at work here. with overall rising temps the ground temp will be below air temp. When temperatures are falling, ground temps are warmer than air temps.


I reread the series of reports and suspect the last data points on the graph posted are spurious. This would also make my comments invalid. Consider the following from the interim report:

“It is the policy of the Galapagos National Park Service to open known nests when park wardens expect hatching to be completed and assist hatchlings to excavate the nest. This means that we do not know the exact date of either hatching or when eruption would have taken place naturally, and therefore we cannot provide accurate estimates of incubation time.”

Thus, the last data point temperatures do not directly correlate with hatching or the time the nest was opened by the GNPS. Additionally, Galaps usually hatch early in the rainy system when lush vegetation grows. For us the incubation period is approximately 4-4 ½ months. The timing of this study was an El Nino period. Rain or nest flooding may also have influenced the final reported data.
 

CarolM

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Hi
The sensor push has arrived. Do I place it above ground in a tupperware i.e. with the sensor push under a tupperware in order to protect it from the elements? That is on the ground with a tupperware above it or in the tupperware with the lid on, above ground?
 

Markw84

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Hi
The sensor push has arrived. Do I place it above ground in a tupperware i.e. with the sensor push under a tupperware in order to protect it from the elements? That is on the ground with a tupperware above it or in the tupperware with the lid on, above ground?
I have the one I use for comparable "meterological" weather, mounted under the eave of a gazebo where it is shaded from direct sun, gets good airflow and not effected by a heated building. I wanted high enough to not get ground effect heating at night. So that means at least 5 feet above the ground level minimum. If the sensor is where it gets direct sunshine, it will effect the temperature reading greatly. You want a spot in the shade. I like to get as close to "official" weather readings as possible so I can compare to the weather readings I can get from anywhere in the world as close as possible to prime range for a species I am wanting to compare. For example with G platynota I keep weather records for a city very close to the heart of the biggest refuge left for platynota. I know that right now a wild nest is experiencing highs of 79°-84° and lows of 57°-64°. The closer I can come to seeing what a similar depth nest that is experiencing as close as possible to those temperature ranges is actually reading in the ground the better! If we don't get a reading that is as close as possible to meterological readings, it will throw everything off. I will be adjusting my estimates trying to account for overall temperatures of previous months as ground temps are a huge factor and they lag behind meterological monthly changes. so for the platynota data, I know this is the coldest time of year and ground temps are higher than if we were looking at a spring or fall location with similar readings. Rainfall is also a big factor if it is different in our sample area vs wild nest locations. For your location, we are actually getting wild nest data for C angulata. But the value of the comparative meterological reading would be most useful if it is as close to meterological standards as possible.

I believe what I see of your location is that it is too close to the ground. Ground effect heating at night will definitely effect the overnight readings. Compare your reading you are getting now with the official weather data for a station as close to your location as possible. See how much it matches.
 

CarolM

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I have the one I use for comparable "meterological" weather, mounted under the eave of a gazebo where it is shaded from direct sun, gets good airflow and not effected by a heated building. I wanted high enough to not get ground effect heating at night. So that means at least 5 feet above the ground level minimum. If the sensor is where it gets direct sunshine, it will effect the temperature reading greatly. You want a spot in the shade. I like to get as close to "official" weather readings as possible so I can compare to the weather readings I can get from anywhere in the world as close as possible to prime range for a species I am wanting to compare. For example with G platynota I keep weather records for a city very close to the heart of the biggest refuge left for platynota. I know that right now a wild nest is experiencing highs of 79°-84° and lows of 57°-64°. The closer I can come to seeing what a similar depth nest that is experiencing as close as possible to those temperature ranges is actually reading in the ground the better! If we don't get a reading that is as close as possible to meterological readings, it will throw everything off. I will be adjusting my estimates trying to account for overall temperatures of previous months as ground temps are a huge factor and they lag behind meterological monthly changes. so for the platynota data, I know this is the coldest time of year and ground temps are higher than if we were looking at a spring or fall location with similar readings. Rainfall is also a big factor if it is different in our sample area vs wild nest locations. For your location, we are actually getting wild nest data for C angulata. But the value of the comparative meterological reading would be most useful if it is as close to meterological standards as possible.

I believe what I see of your location is that it is too close to the ground. Ground effect heating at night will definitely effect the overnight readings. Compare your reading you are getting now with the official weather data for a station as close to your location as possible. See how much it matches.
Ok. Will do.
 

CarolM

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I have the one I use for comparable "meterological" weather, mounted under the eave of a gazebo where it is shaded from direct sun, gets good airflow and not effected by a heated building. I wanted high enough to not get ground effect heating at night. So that means at least 5 feet above the ground level minimum. If the sensor is where it gets direct sunshine, it will effect the temperature reading greatly. You want a spot in the shade. I like to get as close to "official" weather readings as possible so I can compare to the weather readings I can get from anywhere in the world as close as possible to prime range for a species I am wanting to compare. For example with G platynota I keep weather records for a city very close to the heart of the biggest refuge left for platynota. I know that right now a wild nest is experiencing highs of 79°-84° and lows of 57°-64°. The closer I can come to seeing what a similar depth nest that is experiencing as close as possible to those temperature ranges is actually reading in the ground the better! If we don't get a reading that is as close as possible to meterological readings, it will throw everything off. I will be adjusting my estimates trying to account for overall temperatures of previous months as ground temps are a huge factor and they lag behind meterological monthly changes. so for the platynota data, I know this is the coldest time of year and ground temps are higher than if we were looking at a spring or fall location with similar readings. Rainfall is also a big factor if it is different in our sample area vs wild nest locations. For your location, we are actually getting wild nest data for C angulata. But the value of the comparative meterological reading would be most useful if it is as close to meterological standards as possible.

I believe what I see of your location is that it is too close to the ground. Ground effect heating at night will definitely effect the overnight readings. Compare your reading you are getting now with the official weather data for a station as close to your location as possible. See how much it matches.
Hi Mark.
Okay I changed the position to hang under a tree.
The below is the current reading on the sensor push and the temp on the weather app.
Please let me know if this is okay.Screenshot_20190101-183824_SensorPush.jpegScreenshot_20190101-183852_Google.jpeg20190101_183920.jpeg
 

Markw84

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Carol, Can we get a few pictures seeing the exposure of the nest location where you have the sensor buried? And where the actual nest is in realation? I am interested in the amount of direct sun it gets. From the first set of data you sent it looks like we get a nice bit of solar heating of the ground where the nest is, and on more cloudy days it does not spike as high. ON sunny days the nest gets warmer than air temps. So it must get direct sun. I would expect that a tortoise nest would need full sun exposure more with the cooler temps you get there along the coast. A picture showing the overall location at noon on a sunny day to see shadows and how much sun exposure the nest gets.

Here's the first set of data for Dec 17 - Dec 31. So we are looking at the period right at the summer solstice. I took air temp weather data from a weather station within 1/2 mile of your house and overlaid it (grey) over the nest temps.

C angulata data Dec 2018a.jpg
 

CarolM

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Carol, Can we get a few pictures seeing the exposure of the nest location where you have the sensor buried? And where the actual nest is in realation? I am interested in the amount of direct sun it gets. From the first set of data you sent it looks like we get a nice bit of solar heating of the ground where the nest is, and on more cloudy days it does not spike as high. ON sunny days the nest gets warmer than air temps. So it must get direct sun. I would expect that a tortoise nest would need full sun exposure more with the cooler temps you get there along the coast. A picture showing the overall location at noon on a sunny day to see shadows and how much sun exposure the nest gets.

Here's the first set of data for Dec 17 - Dec 31. So we are looking at the period right at the summer solstice. I took air temp weather data from a weather station within 1/2 mile of your house and overlaid it (grey) over the nest temps.

View attachment 261200
Okay will do. I am at work tomorrow for probably the full day so will need to do it either on friday or Saturday. I will take a photo at 8am, 1pm and then again at 8pm so you can see the difference.
 

CarolM

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Carol, Can we get a few pictures seeing the exposure of the nest location where you have the sensor buried? And where the actual nest is in realation? I am interested in the amount of direct sun it gets. From the first set of data you sent it looks like we get a nice bit of solar heating of the ground where the nest is, and on more cloudy days it does not spike as high. ON sunny days the nest gets warmer than air temps. So it must get direct sun. I would expect that a tortoise nest would need full sun exposure more with the cooler temps you get there along the coast. A picture showing the overall location at noon on a sunny day to see shadows and how much sun exposure the nest gets.

Here's the first set of data for Dec 17 - Dec 31. So we are looking at the period right at the summer solstice. I took air temp weather data from a weather station within 1/2 mile of your house and overlaid it (grey) over the nest temps.

View attachment 261200
The nest is about 10 to 15 cm away from where I buried the sensor (give or take a few cm). It is also the site which they have picked on previous occassions.
 

Markw84

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The nest is about 10 to 15 cm away from where I buried the sensor (give or take a few cm). It is also the site which they have picked on previous occassions.
Can we get a picture of the actual nest - how disturbed the ground is and how much grass cover is over the nest?
 

CarolM

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Can we get a picture of the actual nest - how disturbed the ground is and how much grass cover is over the nest?
Yes sure. Will include that as well. However I have not disturbed the nest at all. I am going on the word of my domestic worker who said that she saw the female laying / nesting in that area. I did not check it as I did not want to jeopardize the egg. BUT it is the same site where previous eggs were laid. The yellow circle is more or less where I buried the sensor and the little red hat is where the egg is supposed to be. We will only get confirmation on the egg in March / April when it should be hatching. I have included some other photos I had on my phone. But the grass is a lot more now, and will give you updated pics as soon as I can.IMG-20170531-WA0000.jpeg20161010_163004.jpeg20170427_143456.jpeg20180420_173320.jpeg20180526_212142.jpegScreenshot_20190102-205632_Gallery.jpeg
 

Sterant

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Carol sent me her first two-week data set from the SensorPush buried under the "diving bell" method. We will have more data soon, which will include above ground temperatures and RH, but I wanted to get this out now. I did not put RH on this graph as it was at or near 100% the entire time. This is a two week data set. Interesting that the daily high was about 81F and the nightly low was around 69F. Will be good to see what the trend is as the summer grows warmer!

Screen Shot 2019-01-03 at 9.27.42 AM.png
 

CarolM

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Yes sure. Will include that as well. However I have not disturbed the nest at all. I am going on the word of my domestic worker who said that she saw the female laying / nesting in that area. I did not check it as I did not want to jeopardize the egg. BUT it is the same site where previous eggs were laid. The yellow circle is more or less where I buried the sensor and the little red hat is where the egg is supposed to be. We will only get confirmation on the egg in March / April when it should be hatching. I have included some other photos I had on my phone. But the grass is a lot more now, and will give you updated pics as soon as I can.View attachment 261201View attachment 261202View attachment 261204View attachment 261205View attachment 261206View attachment 261207
Okay here are the updated photos. I managed to come home at lunch time yesterday and take the necessary photo for midday.
First is at 07.50am this morning, then at 12.25pm yesterday and last at 19.25pm Yesterday evening.Screenshot_20190104-081206_Gallery.jpegScreenshot_20190104-081309_Gallery.jpegScreenshot_20190104-081400_Gallery.jpegScreenshot_20190104-081511_Gallery.jpegScreenshot_20190104-081647_Gallery.jpeg20190104_080724.jpeg
 

CarolM

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Markw84

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@CarolM Do you have a rock on top of the sensor location? If so, that would alter the temperature readings as the rock would heat more than ground and hold heat longer. We would like the sensor location as "natural" as possible as a mother tortoise would leave it.
 

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