Tortoise lived without UVB

[Ada89]

Hello!

I am looking after a relative's Russian tortoise while they are on holiday. The tortoise was housed in a tiny tortoise table and had a heat lamp which I discovered was not correct as it was not emitting UVB. So I ended up purchasing a larger tortoise table and a mercury vapor lamp for heat and UVB and I've changed up his diet. The tortoise, who was initially extremely quiet and hid, is now lively and I've really formed an attachment to him and done a lot of research on Russian tortoises (but am still learning!). I'm trying to convince the relative to let me keep him.. he's only a young tortoise (a year at most) but I'm assuming he's been without UVB all - or at least most - of his life as he wasn't living outside at all. I'm concerned this will have damaged him - is there anyway you can tell or would he need to be checked over by a specialist vet? Can they recover from not having being exposed to enough UVB in youth or does it always damage them? If I end up keeping him I will create an enclosure outside so he can go out in the summer.

Thank you,
Ada

 

[wellington]

Because Russians brumate in their native land for about 3 months then he likely is fine for now.
Now that he has UV, I sadly have to say you purchased the wrong kind.
The mercury bulbs give out poor UV and they are too harsh on the tortoises shell.
You need a tube florescent for uvb, incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for any needed day heat and night heat.
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp a range of 75-80
Night temps 70.

 

[Ada89]

Because Russians brumate in their native land for about 3 months then he likely is fine for now.
Now that he has UV, I sadly have to say you purchased the wrong kind.
The mercury bulbs give out poor UV and they are too harsh on the tortoises shell.
You need a tube florescent for uvb, incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for any needed day heat and night heat.
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp a range of 75-80
Night temps 70.

Thank you for your reply. Ah yes, I've been reading other posts on the forum about MVB. Frustratingly, the MVB is the one I was recommended in the reptile shop so I thought we had sorted that out. I do give him a bath once a week and he doesn't tend to sit directly under the lamp - but is it still too harsh on the shell? I'll look into the tube fluorescence/incandescent flood bulb.

I did a temperature check with a digital thermometer the other day at the height of his shell and under the lamp he's getting the correct basking temp. On a night I switch off the lamp (I'm in the UK) and the temp is 70, so I don't think I need a ceramic heat emitter?

 

[wellington]

Yes you need a tube florescent not the mvb. The mvb is bad at giving UV and too harsh on the shell. It will cause pyramiding even under 100% correct conditions.
It may be too hot right under it and that's why he's off to the side.
Also he needs 80% humidity for hatchlings up to around three years and as an adult 50%>

 

[Ada89]

Yes you need a tube florescent not the mvb. The mvb is bad at giving UV and too harsh on the shell. It will cause pyramiding even under 100% correct conditions.
It may be too hot right under it and that's why he's off to the side.
Also he needs 80% humidity for hatchlings up to around three years and as an adult 50%>

OK, thank you

 

[Tom]

Hello!

I am looking after a relative's Russian tortoise while they are on holiday. The tortoise was housed in a tiny tortoise table and had a heat lamp which I discovered was not correct as it was not emitting UVB. So I ended up purchasing a larger tortoise table and a mercury vapor lamp for heat and UVB and I've changed up his diet. The tortoise, who was initially extremely quiet and hid, is now lively and I've really formed an attachment to him and done a lot of research on Russian tortoises (but am still learning!). I'm trying to convince the relative to let me keep him.. he's only a young tortoise (a year at most) but I'm assuming he's been without UVB all - or at least most - of his life as he wasn't living outside at all. I'm concerned this will have damaged him - is there anyway you can tell or would he need to be checked over by a specialist vet? Can they recover from not having being exposed to enough UVB in youth or does it always damage them? If I end up keeping him I will create an enclosure outside so he can go out in the summer.

Thank you,
Ada

Hello and welcome. You've gotten good tips from Wellington.

Please give this a read through. It will explain a lot. There is a heating and lighting breakdown and a temperate species care sheet near the bottom too:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TammyJ]

Hello and welcome to the forum. When you can, please post some pictures of your tortoise? I hope you get to keep him!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Thank you for your reply. Ah yes, I've been reading other posts on the forum about MVB. Frustratingly, the MVB is the one I was recommended in the reptile shop so I thought we had sorted that out. I do give him a bath once a week and he doesn't tend to sit directly under the lamp - but is it still too harsh on the shell? I'll look into the tube fluorescence/incandescent flood bulb.

I did a temperature check with a digital thermometer the other day at the height of his shell and under the lamp he's getting the correct basking temp. On a night I switch off the lamp (I'm in the UK) and the temp is 70, so I don't think I need a ceramic heat emitter?

Reptile shops want to sell you what they sell. And frankly, most shops don't have any idea of what the animals they sell actually need.
You'd find it interesting to know that just about EVERYTHING that is correct is either available from Amazon or the local hardware store and not from any pet shop.

 

[Ada89]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm now thinking the enclosure I got him isn't really good enough. It's a large tortoise table and I've checked the humidity and it's not as high as it should be. I read on the info sheet provided ^^ that it is better to have closed enclosures. Does anyone have any recommendations for where to buy closed enclosures of the correct size in the UK? Thank you.

 

[Ada89]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm now thinking the enclosure I got him isn't really good enough. It's a large tortoise table and I've checked the humidity and it's not as high as it should be. I read on the info sheet provided ^^ that it is better to have closed enclosures. Does anyone have any recommendations for where to buy closed enclosures of the correct size in the UK? Thank you.

I also think he may be older than initially thought, but I'm not sure... I'll try and post a picture of him.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm now thinking the enclosure I got him isn't really good enough. It's a large tortoise table and I've checked the humidity and it's not as high as it should be. I read on the info sheet provided ^^ that it is better to have closed enclosures. Does anyone have any recommendations for where to buy closed enclosures of the correct size in the UK? Thank you.

Hello!
The quick and cheap option is to put a portable greenhouse over or around the table you have. Or get a portable greenhouse with a water proof floor make enclosure out of it. Also there are "grow tents" for hydroponic plants (the only downside is that don't have large window to watch the tortoise).

I've checked some UK manufacturers sites (just Googled for "vivarium UK"). Most of the offers are pricey and have somewhat strange proportions, like 8x2 ft. This one: https://southdown-aquatics.co.uk/shop/8ft-vivariums12/8ft-x-3ft-x-3ft-vivarium-2/ is probably the closest to 8x4 size recommended for adult russian tortoises. And with 3 feet height you can make a ramp and a "second floor" to extend available space.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I have a minigreenhouse put over a tort table for a RedFoot...don't know why you can't do it for a Russian
easy

 

[Ada89]

I have a minigreenhouse put over a tort table for a RedFoot...don't know why you can't do it for a RussianView attachment 364906
easyView attachment 364905

Ooo, thanks, that's a fab idea!

 

[zolasmum]

Welcome Ada - I live in Devon. I'm very glad you found this forum, and I often wish it had existed when we got our baby Hermanns tortoise,22 years ago ! I would suggest you get a mini greenhouse for a while, before considering what to do, if anything, about a permanent enclosure - get to know his habits and preferences.As he is a Russian, you need to be extra careful about the possibility of him escaping, though - they are extremely good climbers, and are very clever at finding ways out !
Best wishes from Angie

 

[Ada89]

Hello! Thank you for the welcome and your suggestion - greenhouse seems to be the way to go. I've learnt so much since coming to this forum yesterday. The amount of differing information on the internet/pet shops has been a bit overwhelming, so it's good to now have access to the info sheet. I wish I'd have found this forum before buying the tortoise table.. oh well! It's still better than what he was in before (it was TINY! - poor boy) but I can improve. He's a real character and I've already observed his climbing abilities. He's also quite sassy. I don't know how much tortoises bond with their owners, but he'll come out from his hide pretty quickly when he hears my voice and it's lovely.

I never even considered a tortoise before this and probably would never have got one due to the responsibility and how long they live.. unfortunately it was an impulsive, not-thought-out-at-all decision from the relative.. but now he's here I want him to have a better life.

 

[Ada89]

Welcome Ada - I live in Devon. I'm very glad you found this forum, and I often wish it had existed when we got our baby Hermanns tortoise,22 years ago ! I would suggest you get a mini greenhouse for a while, before considering what to do, if anything, about a permanent enclosure - get to know his habits and preferences.As he is a Russian, you need to be extra careful about the possibility of him escaping, though - they are extremely good climbers, and are very clever at finding ways out !
Best wishes from Angie

Out of interest, do you house your tortoises outside in the summer? I was thinking if he can stay with us that an outdoor enclosure in summer would be best (I have a decently sized garden), maybe brought in on a night, and an inside enclosure in winter.

 

[zolasmum]

Out of interest, do you house your tortoises outside in the summer? I was thinking if he can stay with us that an outdoor enclosure in summer would be best (I have a decently sized garden), maybe brought in on a night, and an inside enclosure in winter.

Hello Ada again - Zola lives indoors - we have a garden which is not entirely safe -and he has a specially built consevatory, which is double glazed and kept warm, and quite large - however, we take him outside, carefully watched, whenever we can, and also spend a great deal of time with him indoors. He also comes out in the car with us daily, and we go to look at the sea, which he loves, even in bad weather - in the summer, he comes to Dartmoor, to climb about on the rocks, or to walk for ages on the breakwater at Bude and soak up the sunshine. He is our only "family" and we love him dearly - he repays us by being happy, and by clearly enjoying our company.
I think an outside enclosure in summer would be fine for your little one, if it is totally safe, and with a hide, and shade, as well as water for him, but probably bringing him in at night - I know Yorkshire can get pretty chilly !
I hope you are able to keep him - I'm sure he would have a happy life with you.
Angie

 

[biochemnerd808]

Building an escape proof, predator proof outdoor habitat for summertime is a great idea. Natural sun (not filtered by glass or anything else) is SO beneficial. And you can grow weeds in there that you can feed for much of the year!

 

[Sarah2020]

Hi and welcome. I have a Russian tort who has both indoor and outdoor enclosures. I highly recommend the outside enclosure as it provides flexibility with our uk climate but he comes in every night. They are escape artists so have that in mind.... I build it by digging a large trench, chicken wire across the base , breeze block surround finished with overlapping marshal driveway stones on top for aesthetics which can be added to when they grow and the stretch to escape. Inside is a bed of large pebbles to ensure drainage and substrate I re use indoor orchid bark. I add hides and rocks for interest. I cover with metal grill and corrogated plastic to protect. Speedy loves going out on a summers day basking in the sun, watching the birds and planes. Ensure sun and shade is provided so they walk around to the temp they want . Hope that gives you some inspiration?