Tortoise died

[Anyfoot]

Well yesterday ended up a s**t day.
About 10pm a couple of my adult homeana were out looking for food. So a put a few slugs in. Both started devouring as usual, but one kept farting a lot. After she had eaten a slug she started to move her head from side to side as though she was trying to get the slug slime off her beak, occasionally she lifted her head with mouth wide open, also lifting one front leg extremely high, all this time there was a constant farting going on followed by a runny poop. Panic kicked in for me so I got her out of the enclosure, inspected her, it was obvious she was in distress. I looked down her throat, nothing, although I'm not sure if the tongue looked bigger than usual. I put her in a warm bath for a while(still farting all this time) then had another inspection. At one point it looked like there was a bulge in her throat. She seemed to calm slightly. So I put her in the enclosure on her own(kept the others away from her altogether). She headed straight for one of the hides(very unusual for her). I left her be, every now and then I touched a back leg to see if there was a reaction, and there was. This morning I checked on her 1st thing and I think she died.
I've not got a clue why.

This girl was always in the water dishes, for the last week or so she stopped sitting in the water(just something I noticed that was a change from the norm) also I've fed them Rocket for the 1st time over the last couple of days.
These are photos 10hrs after I found her this morning. Still lump and bright eyed.

Living in hope but fear the worst.

How do I go about finding out what the cause was. I mean is there a definite way of medically finding out.

 

[dmmj]

a beautiful animal the only way to find out for sure would be a necropsy. an autopsy would be superficial at best

 

[Tom]

You need an experienced tortoise vet to do a necropsy. We have a few universities over here that specialize in this sort of thing that we can send them off to. This is the only way to find out what really happened and if your other tortoises are at risk.

Don't freeze the body. Keep it in the fridge. Freezing destroys cell membranes and makes some of the tests impossible.

 

[Anyfoot]

I'll phone the best vet I know of and see where to go with it. Thanks.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

a beautiful animal the only way to find out for sure would be a necropsy. an autopsy would be superficial at best

That's not what those words mean. I agree a tragic loss. That is the burden of establishing species into captivity, some emotional, some monetary. That's why captive bred should always be some factor higher in cost than wild caught. When knowledgeable people like Anyfoot take on this kind of task, they are really going to an effort that is difficult in many ways.

It would be great to suggest a definitive cause is likely to be found. Causes of death are often hidden or multi fold. Observation and interpretation are tricky things for most vets. Tom's suggestion of a Uni is good in that actual pathologists would likely be involved.

 

[Pearly]

Oh Craig, I'm so sorry... She is beautiful! But wait! Don't let anyone cut her open or bury. Remember Ed's Bertha? You never know. In humans the eye gets dull looking few hrs after death so maybe her "bright eyeness" is a good sign... Hang in there my friend

 

[dmmj]

You need an experienced tortoise vet to do a necropsy. We have a few universities over here that specialize in this sort of thing that we can send them off to. This is the only way to find out what really happened and if your other tortoises are at risk.

Don't freeze the body. Keep it in the fridge. Freezing destroys cell membranes and makes some of the tests impossible.

I learned that lesson of not freezing a long time ago

 

[Anyfoot]

Just got off the phone to the vets, and basically a autopsy can be done if sent off to the labs for a detailed examination, but a definitive answer is not guaranteed, especially in tortoises.
Apparenty a necropsy is just not available on a pet Tortoise over here.

 

[juli11]

Do I understand it right? You feed a slug and she became strange and die?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I'd wait 24 hours.
Bertha didn't respond to having her eyes poked! She was DEAD. ..Then came out of "it" the next day.
I'm very sorry to hear about this.
If she is indeed dead, I hope it was a freak accident.

 

[Anyfoot]

Do I understand it right? You feed a slug and she became strange and die?

It is a possibility this happened.

But there are other things before this i noticed that are strange.

She's been out of the water for about a week which is unusual.
She had gas/farting.
We found a runny poop in the enclosure a few days ago.
I fed rocket for the first time(unlikely this).

 

[Pearly]

It sounds like something was wrong with her gut, with all that gas and runny poo. But again, don't send her off for testing just yet. If her sclera (the eye membeane) continues to be clear and bright I think there is a good chance she may come back like Bertha did

 

[TammyJ]

What is "rocket"?

Maybe an XRay would show if she had a blockage or twisted gut. And please be certain that she is dead. Turtles I know can sometimes "resurrect" themselves after days of seeming to be dead!

So sorry this happened.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Rocket is a type of lettuce?

 

[Anyfoot]

I've always struggled to get them to est greens. Occasionally they eat kale, I discovered this week someone was eating the rocket. So kept putting it in.
The high protein intake is always on my mind regarding. However I think this species does eat higher protein levels than the norm Tortoise. I would have liked to have found that out through tests.
Another point to consider is, 4 of these torts came to me in bad(ish) condition. Well I thought they did. They had toenails missing, overgrown beaks and were laying long thin eggs. All were kept in a 2×4ft viv for 10yrs.
So that ad always been on my mind. This particular tort has never acted the same as the other 3 or the 2 I got off flintus. They like water, but 22hrs a day seems much. Maybe I should have had her checked out months ago. I've had them about 16months now.
The mind thinks up all sorts after the occasion.
Emotions, yeah. Gutted is the word. But I've not learnt anything from it. Doubts kick in.
Life goes on.
It will happen again, I have 2 reds that I don't expect to live long life's after there first care. Positive thought, this girl left me 3 hatchlings.

 

[dmmj]

are the others acting weird?

 

[Pearly]

I've always struggled to get them to est greens. Occasionally they eat kale, I discovered this week someone was eating the rocket. So kept putting it in.
The high protein intake is always on my mind regarding. However I think this species does eat higher protein levels than the norm Tortoise. I would have liked to have found that out through tests.
Another point to consider is, 4 of these torts came to me in bad(ish) condition. Well I thought they did. They had toenails missing, overgrown beaks and were laying long thin eggs. All were kept in a 2×4ft viv for 10yrs.
So that ad always been on my mind. This particular tort has never acted the same as the other 3 or the 2 I got off flintus. They like water, but 22hrs a day seems much. Maybe I should have had her checked out months ago. I've had them about 16months now.
The mind thinks up all sorts after the occasion.
Emotions, yeah. Gutted is the word. But I've not learnt anything from it. Doubts kick in.
Life goes on.
It will happen again, I have 2 reds that I don't expect to live long life's after there first care. Positive thought, this girl left me 3 hatchlings.

Don't despair. Do what you can now. Keep her warm, dark, quiet, see if she comes out of it. Or if her eyes start becoming dull looking if her color changes in any way, and any discharge starts coming out of her body orifices. I did want to explore more what you have said about the greens though. How about cactus? Do they eat it?

 

[Anyfoot]

are the others acting weird?

Nope, carrying on as normal.

 

[Anyfoot]

Don't despair. Do what you can now. Keep her warm, dark, quiet, see if she comes out of it. Or if her eyes start becoming dull looking if her color changes in any way, and any discharge starts coming out of her body orifices. I did want to explore more what you have said about the greens though. How about cactus? Do they eat it?

Tried it. Nope.

 

[Pearly]

Tried it. Nope.

Did you see how I fed my babies? Chopping&mixing everything, I often put tiny bits of some treat type of stuff on top just to spark their interest. Once they take few bites, they typically keep going