Too good to be true?

[Seiryu]

I am finally looking into getting my leopard now that everything is cleaned up in my flooded basement.

I found this ad on Kingsnake.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=696255

Leopards $120 shipped WITH Health Certs And they are 3-5m/o.

My other option is from Vincent and he has them at $125 shipped (no health cert) and they are maybe a month old.

What do you guys think? Go with the $120 shipped?

And lastly, Health ceritificates mean that the person actually took them to a vet and the tortoise was given a vet exam of some type correct?

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes a health certificate should mean that they were checked for ticks and found to have none. Thats what the health certificate is for.

Danny

 

[Nay]

Hi Rob,
It's so hard to trust people. Yes a Health cert certainly should mean what it says, but people find ways to alter everything..I couldn't tell you who to go with, but for me I would think older is better. Can you actually talk to someone, not that that guarentees anything either, but sometimes at least it feels better to speak to a live person..
Good luck Na

 

[Seiryu]

Hi Rob,
It's so hard to trust people. Yes a Health cert certainly should mean what it says, but people find ways to alter everything..I couldn't tell you who to go with, but for me I would think older is better. Can you actually talk to someone, not that that guarentees anything either, but sometimes at least it feels better to speak to a live person..
Good luck Na

Yes, both people have numbers listed. I've talked to Vincent a few times already. He just doesn't have any ready at the moment.

The other guy I left a message for.

While I understand not all can be trusted, at this point i'm going to have to get something out of state. There's 3 shows in michigan (2 cost about $30-40 just driving), and the 3rd is only about $20 driving, but the guy who runs it says they rarely ever have them and he won't give me names of people there with them.

So eventually if I go to those shows I'd get one, but they'd be in the 200's of dollars after everything.

I think i'm going to go with either the very top one, or the middle one. They seem to be a little bit bigger to me.

 

[Laura]

Hatchlings can be difficult at times to get everyting right.
And how flooded did your basement get? Where will your torts live and will they have outside access?

 

[Traveller]

I was in the same position as you I think. Pardon me if I'm wrong.
Wanted a leopard but read all about the concerns of having a hatchling.
We ended up bringing home a redfoot, easier to care for a little hardier
and well she stole our hearts. I was so concerned that I wouldn't
be a good tort mom for a leopard being a newbie etc. that I went with the redfoot.
I'm an AHT and still wasn't sure.

But......as things happen an older leopard became available about
a month later, a 6" female and well I couldn't resist. I felt I had enough confidence
in myself to know that I could take care of an older established leopard tort. Otherwise
I think I'd still have just the one redfoot.
I may be mistaken but you seem to be fixed on pricing of a tort?
Excuse me if I'm wrong but the initial cost is just that.....
these guys are not cheap to own and you need to be ready to fork out some
considerable cash if and when they do become sick.
Hope that's of some help.
Hope that's of some help.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Even with a health certificate I would take it to the vet if it was mine. I personally don't think that piece of paper means much at all and I always want a vet's opinion, and to have one established for future care. I agree the cost shouldn't matter at all. You likely should be spending many times that on the supplies and vet than the tort cost. I would go for the oldest, most reputable breeder (with personal recommendations), healthiest, and maybe least travel time for the tort if it comes down to that.

 

[Yvonne G]

There was a law passed a few years ago that tortoises that come from Africa must have a "health certificate" in order to take them across state lines. This health certificate doesn't mean the tortoise was examined and found to be free of any illness and is in good health. It just means that the animal was inspected for ticks and he has none. I copied this from a GOOGLE search:

Heartwater is an infectious disease caused by the bacteria Cowdria ruminantium. It affects cud-chewing mammals, including but not limited to cattle, sheep, goats and deer. The mortality rate is said to be 40 to 100 percent of infected animals.

Common in Africa, the disease spreads via ticks of the genus Amblyomma. In 1999, 15 African bont ticks that tested positive for heartwater were found on imported leopard and sulcata tortoises. This resulted in a ban on the importation of leopard tortoises, Bell’s hingebacks and sulcatas in 2000.

Because ticks, not tortoises, carry the disease, a temporarily erected interstate movement ban was lifted in July of 2000. Interstate traffic of sulcatas and the two other tortoise species is allowed as long as a health certificate from an accredited veterinarian stating that the tortoises are tick-free accompanies the tortoises. If you buy or adopt a tortoise from outside your state, the sender will need to obtain this health certificate, and it will likely cost you $15 to $25.


Hope this enlightens you!!

Yvonne

 

[Seiryu]

Laura - I've been researching and asking many many questions here for almost a month now (even researched before that). I've already done through everything in terms of it's needs and enclosures. I'm not new to reptiles at all.

The basement flooded maybe 2" and that's not even where he'll be living. He'll be in his own bedroom in a 4x1.5 enclosure to start. Then for the INDOOR enclosure, he will have at least an 8x8 tort table once he started growing. For outdoor he is going to have at least a 10x6 enclosure.

Traveller - I'm not worried about the costs for anything if it's not all spent at once. UVB lights cost about $20 around here (exo-terra etc type ones), and heat bulbs about 6-10$ (these are zoomed/All living things bulbs). Costs are not bad in moderation, but spending $300 on a tort, vs getting one for $150 , is about 3-4 years worth of lightning and heat bulbs I could have bought with that money.

Vets are also not an issue. I take my cats and lizards to the same vet, who specializes in reptiles and has other vets that do mammals. Since i've been going to him for years, he does give me discounts on things too, if I need it. He is a family friend.

Tortoise - provided things go through for tuesday. I already called my vet and told him I would be coming in sometime between wednesday and friday

Yvonna - Thanks for the info. He is going to the vet when he arrives for a check-up anyways.

I do appreciate everyones concerns though. But I have, (in my many other topics) covered all of this stuff. This thread was just merely to ask for opinions on which guy I would go with.

 

[Yvonne G]

I wonder about that Kingsnake ad. I don't like the fact that the guy has taken a picture of baby tortoises and iceburg lettuce. Yes, there was cactus and hay also, but you know what the babies are gonna' go for first, right? Also, I couldn't figure out how to see who the Kingsnake guy is.

Is "Vincent" the fellow in Florida who is also a member of our forum? Were you able to see the pictures of the tortoises that Vincent has for sale?

I think unless other members here know who these guys are or know their reputations, you're going to be on your own in this decision.

Yvonne

 

[Tim/Robin]

If it were me (Tim) I would find a way to get the leopard HermanniChris is offering here on the forum. It would be well worth your $300!! You would be getting a superb looking animal and one that you could be confident has been well cared for. If money isn't an issue, think seriously about that animal and contact Chris. You will be setting yourself up for an easier road ahead of you and be getting a very healthy tortoise (also supporting a fellow forum member).

 

[Seiryu]

If it were me (Tim) I would find a way to get the leopard HermanniChris is offering here on the forum. It would be well worth your $300!! You would be getting a superb looking animal and one that you could be confident has been well cared for. If money isn't an issue, think seriously about that animal and contact Chris. You will be setting yourself up for an easier road ahead of you and be getting a very healthy tortoise (also supporting a fellow forum member).

Yvonne - The vincent I am talking of lives in CA. and Yes he has pictures of them.

Tom/Robin - Thanks. If I were to go with anything more expensive. I would go with Jeff Gee, who is much more known than anyone else i've seen on there, and get one of his well started 08 babies.

No offense to Chris, but I havn't actually seen him post much (or anything since i've been here) besides ads on here. But besides being a member on here, what does he have on other guys putting ads on Kingsnake. This was a serious question, not to belittle him. But like I said, since he hasn't actually posted much of anything besides ads, I trully don't know.

I do value everyones input and I may or may not get anything on tuesday either. And I won't rush into anything either. If I wanted to rush into everything, I would have gotten my tortoise a month ago.

In my opinion compared to pet shop animals (PetCo/PetSmart) these younger tortoises are probably going to be a bit healthier. And people buy from pet shops all the time with no issues. Not that there arn't any issues, but there are a lot that do well with proper care.

I went to PetCo yesterday to get the eco-earth bricks. And I looked to see what reptiles they had. They had about 5 Hermann's tortoises that i'd say were about 4-5" in maybe a 50g tank. Little to no water, no heat bulb I could see. Shells started to slightly bump etc.

And someone is going to buy those leopards babies. Why not someone who has done a lot of research and will give it a good home vs someone that buys on the spur of the moment and has no idea.

 

[Tim/Robin]

Search faunaclassifieds board of inquiry on Jeff Gee. Search it on Chris as well. Chris is very well known for superb animals.

 

[treshell]

I didn't see the babies above eating the food. The picture shows them setting on the food. That could be because they were keeping the shots clean for the pictures. There seems so many sad stories of loss in the tortoise that start with the words-- 'my tortoise isn't eating'. I worry.
treshell

 

[Millerlite]

Vincent is a good guy, I bought many tortoises from him and actually my two leopard tortoises were from him. They both are active and healthy and are not shy at all. I also had gotten a few star tortoises, A huge mt. tortoise from him, I always recommend him when i can. The lepards i got from him also ate very well, Ate right out the box..