The End Of Pyramiding

[Ansh]

First of all Tom, I'd like to thank you for the work you've done! This thread (and some other similar threads) have provided me with more information than anything else I've read.

I am relatively inexperienced, but learning fast. Have 2 Stars about 6 months old that are feeding really well. Have more than doubled in weight in the last 4 months. The point of my post is to share an observation that you made earlier. Both my tortoises are exposed to the same temperature/ humidity, soaking and diet. I have had problems maintaining the humidity in the past but that has been sorted. Despite these identical conditions, one of my stars seems to have developed some pyramiding. I've thought a lot about the reason for this and the only difference between them is that the one that isn't pyramided seems to prefer to sleep in the humid hide, whereas the other one doesn't. I've now introduced another hide and hope that this will help prevent further pyramiding. The humidity is now constantly between 70-80% and I can't think of anything else that I could change.

I know you noted something similar with your sulcatas. Would love to hear what you think.

(I appreciate stars are supposed to have some natural pyramiding but that still doesn't explain the difference between the 2).

 

[Tom]

Ansh, I love your way of thinking.

In my experience with species other than stars, pairs are a bad idea. Almost always, one member of a pair grows faster and smoother while the other grows slower and more pyramided. Is this a function of chronic stress? Is it simply mechanical in that one hogs the most food and the best microclimates within the enclosure for sleeping, basking and resting? I don't have this answer, but I have observed what you are seeing many times with multiple species.

If I were you, I would separate these two or get another one or two. I'll bet that either course of action will make the smaller guys growth start to come in smoother.

Again, I can't speak for stars, but shell spraying has helped with sulcatas and leopards I've raised. You could spray the lumpier one more often. I like at least 3-4 times a day, but if I'm trying to slow down some pyramiding I might do it 10 times a day.

 

[Ansh]

Thanks Tom. Makes lot of sense. Will separate the 2 and see what happens.

 

[tortoise007]

Any update? I really don't want read through the whole thing but I've read about 10 pages and this thread rocks! Well done Tom, I haven't heard much about Tulie... is she still doing OK? I could check myself but as I stated, I don't want to read through all of it (would you read through 41 pages of one thread ?)

 

[Tom]

Tulee was given to a forum member whose sulcata had died due to chronic dehydration problems. I felt bad for her, so I offered to give her one of mine. She loved it, was very thankful, posted a couple of threads on how wonderful everything was and then promptly disappeared. She would not return my calls, answer emails or PMs, and told me I had the wrong number before hanging up on me when I called her once. I didn't have the wrong number. It was programmed with her name in my phone. It was obviously her voice.

I can only guess that the tortoise suffered some sort of untimely demise and the woman just couldn't face it, so she buried her head in the sand, so to speak, instead of handling it like a grown up.

 

[tortoise007]

That's not good....

 

[TurtleTortoise]

Re: RE: The End Of Pyramiding

Tulee was given to a forum member whose sulcata had died due to chronic dehydration problems. I felt bad for her, so I offered to give her one of mine. She loved it, was very thankful, posted a couple of threads on how wonderful everything was and then promptly disappeared. She would not return my calls, answer emails or PMs, and told me I had the wrong number before hanging up on me when I called her once. I didn't have the wrong number. It was programmed with her name in my phone. It was obviously her voice.

I can only guess that the tortoise suffered some sort of untimely demise and the woman just couldn't face it, so she buried her head in the sand, so to speak, instead of handling it like a grown up.

That's terrible! I wonder what happened to Tulee... quick question (I'm sure you've answered before and I didn't want to start a new topic) what should you do if your tort doesn't use the humid hide? If you put them in it enough do they just go in automatically or what? He has one other hide he uses which can be removed, but I would only want to remove it if I have to. Thanks and great work!

 

[tortoise007]

Tom, should I make all my hides humid hides?

 

[Tom]

what should you do if your tort doesn't use the humid hide? If you put them in it enough do they just go in automatically or what? He has one other hide he uses which can be removed, but I would only want to remove it if I have to. Thanks and great work!

Brand new hatchlings go to great lengths to avoid any sort of cave or hole in the ground. In the wild this would help keep them away from what ever hungry animal MADE said hole. In time they get comfortable and secure in their enclosures and start using the hides more. Once they get some size on, you can hardly get them OUT of their hide.

Here's what I do: I put the babies in the humid hides several times a day and just let them walk out at their leisure. Then about an hour or so after dark, I put them in their hide and make sure the room stays pitch black. They usually don't want to go moving around in the dark and will stay in until morning. On a few stubborn individuals, I'd block them in at night.

Just make sure it never drops below 80 F in there.

---

Tom, should I make all my hides humid hides?

Personally, I would not offer a dry hide to a hatchling. I keep their whole chamber humid AND offer humid hides that are even more humid than the humid closed chamber air. Mine sleep inside their humid hides inside their humid closed chambers.

In the wild, there is no dry hide for them when they hatch in the rainy season. Everything is humid.

Do NOT let any part of your enclosure drop below 80 with humidity.

 

[tortoise007]

All righty! I'll get some more humid hides pronto!

 

[TurtleTortoise]

Same here, thanks for the advice! He used it last night so we're off to a good start.

 

[Jesse977]

Hey Tom my baby sulcata and I thank you for all your hard work and dedication. My baby is two months old and so far his shell is nice and smooth thanks to you.

 

[Camdens tortoise]

my little guy still refuses to use his hide. He used it for 1 day and I got excited but that was the end of that! I put him in there all the time but he just keeps coming out! On the bright side...my closed chamber is AMAZING and at least I know hes warm and humid!

 

[BK-JAY]

Hey Tom can we get some up date pictures of these guys? I see they just turn 3 years old on the 15th

 

[Tom]

Hey Tom can we get some up date pictures of these guys? I see they just turn 3 years old on the 15th

I keep thinking I need to do that. They will be moving into the big adult enclosure soon, so updates will be coming. They are doing well.

 

[BK-JAY]

that's great we'll be waiting 3 years old can't wait to see them

 

[Sezdawg]

This is great. You really meant it when you said this thread would last for years! Very cool experiment!

 

[arotester]

Hi,
TOM i would like to thank you for all the work you have done.The water sprays and humid hide idea have worked for me and by the way i have stars which have grown smoother due humidity.That's another tort species you can add to your list that respond well to the humidity thing

 

[IRTehDuckie]

after skimming over this thread, i see i need to change a lot about my tortoises houses. I know everybody thinks they come from the desert, what does humidity matter? btu you are right, about the burrows.. they ARE so far down its always humid there, and they spend a lot of time there.. My tortoise has slighty pyramiding on the shell, just little bumps, nothing huge, but after seeing this, i definitely need to get stuff straight.

my tort is 2 and a half, and we keep her outside all day, bring her in at night, at night the humidity is about20-50% depending on the weather outside, and temps never get below 73 degrees. during the day we pop her outside, and temps range much more from 60 to 90, (its michigan, what can i say? haha) but humitidy out there is usually high, about 70 to 80.

Is there anything different i should be doing? I know for a fact now i have to make the appropriate shelter for my sulcatas.

 

[Tom]

What size is your tortoise? Age doesn't matter. Once they get to about 8-10" they will start smoothing out regardless of humidity. It's the first few months and the first few inches of growth that are the most critical.