Yeah, those Repti-Glo CFL bulbs come in 13 watts and 26 watts, so I'm betting thats what it is. I'm with Tom; I would switch it out for a MVB or a tube florescent bulb.
The End Of Pyramiding
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
Tom said:
Thanks. Yes it is the coil type. He sits under the heat lamp a good bit if it is not hotter than 90. I have read that if the temp gets up to 104, they start salivating on their arms and wiping themselves to cool down. In Georgia them temps are in the 90's all summer and the guy I bought him from said he is too small to be outside all the time. He said the little guy would fry out there. I only take him out in the mornings or afternoons when it is cooler. The guy told me it didn't need to be too hot in the cage and a 50W heat bulb would be best, so that is what I had. I read a lot of good things about the Powersun that has heat and UVB in one bulb, but my husband said it would be no good if one aspect of the bulb stopped working, plus I think they are a pretty high wattage. The room my reptiles stay in is in the spare bedroom on the opposite end of the house from the a/c and is the warmest room in the house too.
When I started to get concerned about the pyramiding, my husband said it could only be that he is eating too much or growing too fast. That is good that he can eat more. I see in pictures that the light part of their shell shrinks and the dark part gets bigger, so I guess that is normal and not them pyramiding. I just weighed him and he weighs 61 grams. So 23 grams he has gained in less than 2 months. I just want to make sure his growth is slow and steady so he won't have shell issues. He usually leaves food in his bowl...and drags it around the cage. Lol.
When he gets a few years old and big enough that a eagle can't pick him up, he will stay outside in our privacy fence and come in for the winter. We only have a 4 month winter here.
Also, I want your input on burying something under the fence so they cannot dig under it. I talked to a breeder and he said as long as I have things for them to hide in, they won't dig. He said he hatched 200 Sulcatas a year and never had an issue with them digging.
You are getting a lot of mixed information from a lot of sources. It can all be very confusing, I know. All I can do is share with you my opinion and what I do.
The idea behind a heat lamp is to heat up one spot in the enclosure. You need to measure the temp DIRECTLY under that bulb and right around 100 works for me. 90 is not warm enough in my enclosures. At 90 mine just stay under them all day because they can't get warm enough. The idea is for them to get under or near the hot spot, warm up and then move away.
My temps are over 100 everyday here. In phoenix they are 110+ nearly all summer long. You have to build a suitable enclosure in a suitable place. There should be lots of shade available and I like to make little underground retreats for them too. Nothing beats the heat like going underground. They need sunshine and exercise. If need be you can put them out in the early morning or late afternoon when things are cooler. If predators are an issue in your area. Build a wire cover for you enclosure.
The powersun is a good bulb, but it does get hot in a small enclosure. These are really only needed for winter if your tortoise doesn't get sun for months at a time.
Slow and steady growth has nothing to do with pyramiding or not. Slow growth in a sulcata often indicates a problem. If they are kept warm, humid and hydrated, it does not matter how fast they grow. It will be smooth. If they are kept dry and dehydrated, it won't matter how slow and steady they grow, it will be slow steady pyramided growth.
In 20 years of keeping sulcatas of all ages, I have never once buried anything to keep them from digging out. Mine will occasionally try to dig, maybe once or twice a year. I just fill in the hole and put a block there for a couple of weeks and they stop trying. Most of them don't try to dig most of the time, in my experience. The bigger and more interesting the enclosure, and the better your shelter, the less likely they are to try to dig.
The idea behind a heat lamp is to heat up one spot in the enclosure. You need to measure the temp DIRECTLY under that bulb and right around 100 works for me. 90 is not warm enough in my enclosures. At 90 mine just stay under them all day because they can't get warm enough. The idea is for them to get under or near the hot spot, warm up and then move away.
My temps are over 100 everyday here. In phoenix they are 110+ nearly all summer long. You have to build a suitable enclosure in a suitable place. There should be lots of shade available and I like to make little underground retreats for them too. Nothing beats the heat like going underground. They need sunshine and exercise. If need be you can put them out in the early morning or late afternoon when things are cooler. If predators are an issue in your area. Build a wire cover for you enclosure.
The powersun is a good bulb, but it does get hot in a small enclosure. These are really only needed for winter if your tortoise doesn't get sun for months at a time.
Slow and steady growth has nothing to do with pyramiding or not. Slow growth in a sulcata often indicates a problem. If they are kept warm, humid and hydrated, it does not matter how fast they grow. It will be smooth. If they are kept dry and dehydrated, it won't matter how slow and steady they grow, it will be slow steady pyramided growth.
In 20 years of keeping sulcatas of all ages, I have never once buried anything to keep them from digging out. Mine will occasionally try to dig, maybe once or twice a year. I just fill in the hole and put a block there for a couple of weeks and they stop trying. Most of them don't try to dig most of the time, in my experience. The bigger and more interesting the enclosure, and the better your shelter, the less likely they are to try to dig.
Tom said:
That makes sense about the heat needing to be higher. You think I should get a higher wattage bulb then? The 50W only get up to 86 degrees, so maybe I should get an 80 or 100W. Thanks for clearing that up about him growing too fast. I have seen pictures where their shell is deformed and it said it was caused by them growing too fast, so I was so worried about feeding too much. He does have access to food at all times.
We are about to fence in the backyard with a wooden privacy fence, so when he gets bigger, he will have the whole backyard to himself. I had planned on having 2 houses back there. One where the sun doesn't hit in the morning and one where the sun doesn't hit in the afternoon, so if one house gets too hot, he can move to the one on the other side of the yard
Is it fine if I soak him everyday? I used to, then read where you only need to soak them 3-4 times a week. I mist the him and the rocks in his house at least once a day. I was worried about him getting shell rot if he is kept too damp. What causes shell rot?
Also, your babies are gorgeous! Are you selling them?
Ok, Tom...I just went through the entire post. I didn't realize it was SOOOO old. Your babies aren't babies anymore. I also understand now about the mixed information. Some of the info is very old and outdated. I will be keeping him much wetter now.
Do you sell babies often? Mine came from CA.
Do you sell babies often? Mine came from CA.
brandi2546 said:
You can adjust your heat by simply raising or lowering your bulb. I prefer to use lower wattage flood bulbd and just adjust it up or down to get the temps I want. I find that a 65 gives nice even heat over a fairly large area for babies. But other wattages will work too, just at different heights.
I like the two house idea. Just be prepared that he will likely pick one or the other and ignore the second one. Maybe not. It hurts nothing to try. Also During warm weather, leave him outside until after dark a few nights and see where he likes to retire for the evening. If you then put his new house in that spot, it will be much easier getting him to use it on his own.
Soaking everyday is my preference for small ones. Once they get to around 4" I cut it back to 4-5 times a week depending on the weather. Once they get around 6" I cut them back to every other day or so. By the time they hit 10-12" I cut back to once a week in winter and twice a week in summer. My adults are just sporadically done any more. I usually do the females a day or two after laying. And I do all of them when we have our summer hot spells. I ALWAYS have drinking water available for all sizes.
I mist my hatchlings at least 3-4 times a day. I try to keep this up until they are at least 6". Shell rot is a bacterial or fungal infection of the shell or some of its layers. Sulcatas almost never get it. It is extremely rare to see it in a sulcata or a leopard, and when it is seen there is some obvious reason for it. I have heard of a single leopard that had it. It was occurring at the site of a dog mauling on the shell and was a secondary infection. The one sulcata case I ever heard of was from a pipe that broke with out the owners knowing, The sulcata spent the entire winter with no heat in poopy mud. These are the only two cases that I've ever heard of and I've asked several very experienced vets who specialize in tortoises.
Yes. I do occasionally sell some babies when I have them available. I've got a bunch right now if you want some.
Thanks for the advice. I just clamp my light fixtures to his house. What do you hang yours from?
What do you sell the babies for? Also, shipping will probably be high since I am in Georgia. I really am wanting a big one that I can pick up locally...preferably one that someone no longer wants. You know that campaign..."Don't Shop, Adopt". A friend of mine's Aunt had one that was 40 lbs, but it died a few weeks ago. Apparently they did not keep any water in his enclosure and he quit eating and they had to hand feed him. I think his kidney's starting shutting down because he did not get enough hydration. That was sad I know they took him to a specialist and the vet bills were insane.
Also, I have read that some people keep theirs outside all year, but how is that possible when it gets to 30 degrees? I know you can hang a heat lamp in their house, but what if they want to come outside? I know last year, the lowest it got was in the 40s, but it typically gets colder during the winter. It just happened to be very mild this past year.
What do you sell the babies for? Also, shipping will probably be high since I am in Georgia. I really am wanting a big one that I can pick up locally...preferably one that someone no longer wants. You know that campaign..."Don't Shop, Adopt". A friend of mine's Aunt had one that was 40 lbs, but it died a few weeks ago. Apparently they did not keep any water in his enclosure and he quit eating and they had to hand feed him. I think his kidney's starting shutting down because he did not get enough hydration. That was sad
I know they took him to a specialist and the vet bills were insane. Also, I have read that some people keep theirs outside all year, but how is that possible when it gets to 30 degrees? I know you can hang a heat lamp in their house, but what if they want to come outside? I know last year, the lowest it got was in the 40s, but it typically gets colder during the winter. It just happened to be very mild this past year.
Against the advice of professional electricians (little disclaimer there, so you can't sue me if something goes wrong), I hang my lights by the cords. I and many others have been doing this for literally decades and I've never had a problem from it. This makes it very easy to keep the lamp hanging straight down and raise or lower it to get the right temps. Be careful using the clamps. Those clamps always fail eventually and many homes have been burned down because of it. I have had a few close calls with some charred wood or plastic myself. In my opinion, hang them. It's MUCH safer.
They come up for adotion pretty regularly and I think that is a great way to go, if you can find one that suits you. Most of my adults were adopted in some way or other. I got one as a trade, and all the other ones were given to me. Didn't buy any of them. I did buy my very first one back in the early 90's. If you decide you want to buy a baby from me, I charge $75 for one or $60 each for three or more. I try to refrain from selling pairs. Overnight shipping is $50 anywhere in the country for up to four babies. I have an ad in the "for sale" section.
Nighttime lows get into the 20 and 30s here over the winter too. But day times usually warm up to the 60's off 70's. Most of us build heated boxes of some sort or insulated sheds and use various devices to heat them. Here is an example:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-Mother-of-All-Tortoise-Boxes#axzz24yRPo9PM
On cold days and nights, they simply go into their warm boxes and wait for warmer temps. The better and more insulated you build your box, the easier and cheaper it will be to heat it.
They come up for adotion pretty regularly and I think that is a great way to go, if you can find one that suits you. Most of my adults were adopted in some way or other. I got one as a trade, and all the other ones were given to me. Didn't buy any of them. I did buy my very first one back in the early 90's. If you decide you want to buy a baby from me, I charge $75 for one or $60 each for three or more. I try to refrain from selling pairs. Overnight shipping is $50 anywhere in the country for up to four babies. I have an ad in the "for sale" section.
Nighttime lows get into the 20 and 30s here over the winter too. But day times usually warm up to the 60's off 70's. Most of us build heated boxes of some sort or insulated sheds and use various devices to heat them. Here is an example:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-Mother-of-All-Tortoise-Boxes#axzz24yRPo9PM
On cold days and nights, they simply go into their warm boxes and wait for warmer temps. The better and more insulated you build your box, the easier and cheaper it will be to heat it.
Some of my lights have metal hooks I can hang them from too. I have always been worried about the clamps. What do you hang the cords from? Also, what do you put on the shells that make them do shiny when you take pictures?
I warms up to the 50s during the days mostly and I think they even have weather in the 30s in Africa too where they come from. I just didn't know quite how that worked if it is never supposed to be below 70 for them. I have read to make sure they are in there house at night because they may fall asleep in the yard and freeze. I don't know if I would ever feel comfortable leaving him (Bob) out in the cold. Lol. I do have a garage where I could let him stay at least.
Do you have any ideas about adoption in Georgia? I have seen some sites, but not for this state and they want a $350 adoption fee. My fiance bought me one from a pet store for $350 (it was 5 years old and 10lbs). I told him that was insane to pay that, so we got the baby for $125. The older one had some pyramiding and he had bubbly nasal discharge, so we took him back. There is a website that sells all kinds of tortoises at various prices, but I was scared to buy one & have it shipped because I didn't know what I would end up with. I know they have different personalities and wanted to choose from several, but I didn't get to anyway bc the owner of the pet store had him shipped from CA alone. I could have done that myself and saved some money. He was weird about it too because it is illegal to sell them under 4".
I warms up to the 50s during the days mostly and I think they even have weather in the 30s in Africa too where they come from. I just didn't know quite how that worked if it is never supposed to be below 70 for them. I have read to make sure they are in there house at night because they may fall asleep in the yard and freeze. I don't know if I would ever feel comfortable leaving him (Bob) out in the cold. Lol. I do have a garage where I could let him stay at least.
Do you have any ideas about adoption in Georgia? I have seen some sites, but not for this state and they want a $350 adoption fee. My fiance bought me one from a pet store for $350 (it was 5 years old and 10lbs). I told him that was insane to pay that, so we got the baby for $125. The older one had some pyramiding and he had bubbly nasal discharge, so we took him back. There is a website that sells all kinds of tortoises at various prices, but I was scared to buy one & have it shipped because I didn't know what I would end up with. I know they have different personalities and wanted to choose from several, but I didn't get to anyway bc the owner of the pet store had him shipped from CA alone. I could have done that myself and saved some money. He was weird about it too because it is illegal to sell them under 4".
I either build wooden frames or use an overhanging shelf and attach rubber coated coffee cup holder hooks to hang my lights from.
That is plain old water on their shells in the pics.
I've been watching the temps in 6 random locations throughout the sulcatas natural range since November. The lowest night temp I've seen was 65, BUT you must understand that no wild sulcata ever sees that temp because they are underground in their burrows. Daytime highs are always in the 90s or above. I don't know where you heard it is never supposed to be below 70 for them. Adults can tolerate it lower. I don't let babies ever drop below 80. My adults have 80 degree boxes to sleep in over winter, but they come out and walk around when temps are in the 40s or 50s sometimes. They graze a bit and then go back in their warm boxes. My night boxes used to get pretty cold in the winters, but I much prefer keeping them warmer now that I've tried both methods.
Don't know about any rescues in Georgia. According to the people that are against breeding more sulcatas there is a huge overabundance of them just overflowing from everywhere. Of course when someone like you wants one they seem pretty scarce. This has come up many times here on the forum.
The 4" rule only applies to businesses, not small time hobbyists, and there are loopholes built in.
That is plain old water on their shells in the pics.
I've been watching the temps in 6 random locations throughout the sulcatas natural range since November. The lowest night temp I've seen was 65, BUT you must understand that no wild sulcata ever sees that temp because they are underground in their burrows. Daytime highs are always in the 90s or above. I don't know where you heard it is never supposed to be below 70 for them. Adults can tolerate it lower. I don't let babies ever drop below 80. My adults have 80 degree boxes to sleep in over winter, but they come out and walk around when temps are in the 40s or 50s sometimes. They graze a bit and then go back in their warm boxes. My night boxes used to get pretty cold in the winters, but I much prefer keeping them warmer now that I've tried both methods.
Don't know about any rescues in Georgia. According to the people that are against breeding more sulcatas there is a huge overabundance of them just overflowing from everywhere. Of course when someone like you wants one they seem pretty scarce. This has come up many times here on the forum.
The 4" rule only applies to businesses, not small time hobbyists, and there are loopholes built in.
I wouldn't mind having an aldabra either. I like them a lot, but they are even harder to find. I certainly would never pay $1500 for one. They seem to be very sweet too. Do aldabras and sulcatas even get along together? I know you shouldn't have 2 males of the same type together, but I have no idea what sex mine is. As far as I know, he is no older than 6 months old..probably younger since he is only 64 grams
I am not sure what all types of tortoises you have owned, but in your opinion, which ones are the most personable?
I am not sure what all types of tortoises you have owned, but in your opinion, which ones are the most personable?
It is unlikely that you will find an Aldabra for less than $1500. They are neat tortoises yes.
A sulcata and an Aldabra should never be mixed. Sulcatas are much more aggressive and the disease potential is not worth the risk to something so rare and precious as an Aldabra. Really no two species should be mixed in my opinion.
A sulcata and an Aldabra should never be mixed. Sulcatas are much more aggressive and the disease potential is not worth the risk to something so rare and precious as an Aldabra. Really no two species should be mixed in my opinion.
Good work Tom!
Hey Tom I would love to see some up to date pictures of Trey and Tuck if possible. I feel like I know the lil guys
I plan to do updates soon. Swamped with work right now.
We've had some cold rainy weather lately. Tuck and Trey have been hiding out in their warm underground "burrow". I caught them above ground doing some grazing today. I have not weighed them for a while, but they are around 12" now.
I am glad your doing this! It sounds successful and ill go by it too as I don't want pyramided sulcatas! I'll be checking this thanks!!
Your welcome. I hope you make your own thread, post all the details for your set up and show pics of the results. Every time someone does this it is one more nail in the coffin for the old "dry" method. Remember too keep temps warm day and night. I shoot for 80.
Tom said:
Thanks ill make a post soon!
Great thread - I am so excited that I found this before my baby arrived! Keep up the good work Tom!
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