Testudo graeca ibera clarification please

Trevor Ostrander

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I have Testudo graeca ibera. From what I have read Testudo graeca have many subspecies ibera being one of them. I was looking on arizonatortoisecompound.com and they are selling what they call southern ibera greeks. Now maybe somebody can clarify but I thought that ibera was the subspecies and that was a far as they go. Or are they broken down further in north and south. If so how do I figure out what mine are. I can post pics if someone thinks they can help me. Thank you in advance. I wanted to get a male from them for my females but do not want to cross subspecies.
 

Trevor Ostrander

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Here are some pics. Wish they weren't so pyramided but I just got them and the guy said they are 3 years old. He said there are two males and three females.
 

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HermanniChris

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Asia Minor tortoises which we refer to as "ibera Greeks" are one subspecies of Testudo graeca. However, just like other Testudo tortoises there are geographical variants that fall under one subspecies. This is something I explain in full detail with Western Hermann's tortoises on my site hermannihaven.com. Southern ibera Greeks are just that...ibera Greeks from a southern area of the their range. We have a group of southern ibera and they are genetically similar to our northern iberas but phenotypical traits (external characteristics) set them apart from their northern cousins. They are smaller, have much more yellow, have yellow heads and are shaped a bit differently. Your tortoises look to be classic northern iberas based on their colors and shape. Some people choose to not recognize geographical variants or "locales" as we call them and these keepers will house tortoises altogether regardless of their differences. There are actually slight genetic differences with these animals from different regions but from the same subspecies and this is something we recently proved with western Hermann's tortoises from Italy, France and Spain representing several locales. For this reason and of course for the phenotypic reasons, we keep every single "style" or variant of tortoises completely separate from one another like nature intended. Hopefully this clears this confusion up for you and here is a photo of a southern ibera (left) compared to a northern ibera (right) here at my facility.
 

Trevor Ostrander

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Oneonta NY
Chris thank you so much for clearing that up for me. I would like to keep my torts variant specific. I don't think crossing them is a good idea. I am looking for unrelated males and females since I am not 100% confident my current 2.3 are not related. I just want to make sure I get the right variant to add to my herd.
 
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