Sulcata shell growth

[Roxie]

I have a young Sulcata that was given to me last winter. He was estimated to be 6-8 months old, so i'd just call him a yearling now. He was in good condition when I got him, no signs of MBD, etc.

I was keeping him indoors and the humidity was only 50-60%. He had good temps and a UV light plus the opportunity to get some natural sunshine once the weather warmed up. He eats weeds and grass from my yard along with hibiscus flowers and leaves, and a bit of fruit 3x week. I moved him outside a few weeks ago. Now he has 70-90% humidity, sunshine all the time, and non stop grazing. I still supplement hibiscus and a little fruit (not much, 10% of diet).

About a month ago I increased the amount I fed him....doubling it I guess. He had a growth spurt of tortoise proportions. Noticeable, but not huge. His plastron had been soft before, but naturally soft like a hatchling. Now I'm noticing that it is still soft along the line such as a growth zone or growth plates in the center. It seems softer than necessary on the plastron near the tail, the two little scutes, and on the carapace by the head and tail. Is the result of sudden growth or a lack of calcium? I haven't used much calcium supplementation because I thought the greens I was feeding had adequate calcium. I did add calcium to the fruit. He seems fine otherwise, active and eating well, and pooping.

 

[wrmitchell22]

I am no expert, but I will try to see if I can help. Is the UV light a Mercury Vapor Bulb which offers uva and uvb? Also why fruit so often? I am pretty sure 1x a month is enough fruit and some sulcata owners say never give fruit. So maybe back off on that. You may need to up his calcium intake to every other day and make sure the light you have is offereing plenty of D3. Real sunlight is the best way to get D3. I am sure someone with more experience than I have will answer soon. Good luck!

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I am no expert, but I will try to see if I can help. Is the UV light a Mercury Vapor Bulb which offers uva and uvb? Also why fruit so often? I am pretty sure 1x a month is enough fruit and some sulcata owners say never give fruit. So maybe back off on that. You may need to up his calcium intake to every other day and make sure the light you have is offereing plenty of D3. Real sunlight is the best way to get D3. I am sure someone with more experience than I have will answer soon. Good luck!

One more question, do you know how much he has grown weight and inches or cm?

 

[ascott]

Sounds like he really really needs exposure to natural sun (as you said he has been inside primarily) I also know that fruit is kinda thing they don't do well.....

Do you soak him? Pics would be great and we love em

 

[Roxie]

He is now outside, so no UV bulbs at all. When he was inside, he had a 10.0 tube fluorescent within about 12" and no screen barrier. It does give off UVA and UVB, although not as strong as some Mercury Vapor bulbs.

I used to soak him, but now he's outside with high humidity and exposure to rainy afternoons, so I have cut that back. He also has a large shallow water bowl for wading/drinking.

The fruit is just an additional source of moisture, vitamins, and phytonutrients. It's maybe a blueberry or half a cherry or grape or a bite of tomato as little as once a week or as often as 3x weekly. But since it is usually low in calcium and high in phosphorous, I supplement it with calcium.

I checked him again this evening and it is his plastron that is soft by the head and tail. His carapace is soft by the tail, too. Not mushy, but bends in along the edges. He was maybe the size of your palm when I got him and now he has grown an inch in length. Not over the top, but end to end. He is sleeping in his house now, but I'll post pictures tomorrow.

 

[jdub]

What do you usually feed him as his regular meals? I think it maybe be lack of calcium? What i usually do is leave a cuttle bone with my my torts to chew on whenever they want.

 

[Roxie]

He eats grass and weeds from my yard along with hibiscus leaves and flowers. My yard is chemical free and chooses clovers and dandelions and grasses of various kinds. I just pick him a salad and he eats what he likes....pretty much everything. Clover is approximately 3:1 in the Ca: P ratio and rye grass is 2:1 which is pretty good. I do plan on getting a cuttle bone on my next trip to the pet store.

 

[Baoh]

I would add Minerall for insurance. Won't hurt. Put it liberally on whatever wet item you treat him with.

 

[Jacob]

Natural Sunlight Is The Best, Try Giving Him Lots Of Time Outside Supervised!
If You Cant Do This, Make An Easy Outside Ensclosure Out Of wood, Or An Old Bookcase etc.
Fruit Isnt Good For Them So If You Were Feeding It 3 Times A Week Thats Very Bad, It Should Be Fed As A Treat Like you Said
Once a Month, Or Every Couple Months!
Try Giving Him Warm Soaks Daily, and Lots Of Sunlight and He Should Thrive, Other Then That This Should Help
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1S6e0X4P7

 

[Tom]

Hi Roxie. I'd cut out the fruit entirely, start supplementing with a good calcium powder every day (with D3), and get him out in the sun as much as you can. Indoors, you need a Mercury vapor bulb. I've never found the flourescents to be very effective, and unfortunately in your case, I seem to be right. I think its great that you researched the Ca ratios of those foods, but remember that there are multiple ways of measuring that, AND there is a lot of variation depending upon where and how they are grown. Soil composition has a lot to do with it. Daily supplementation will not hurt anything, since any unneeded excess will just be passed. I would, however, recommend daily soaks while doing this too. This will ensure good hydration which always beneficial, but especially so in your case.

The shell should not be soft at all at his age/size, so I hope all of our tips will help. I just want to re-emphasize the importance of real, direct SUNSHINE. Lots of it. Even when they are in the shade outside on a hot day, they are still getting some UV due to refraction. Outdoors is the way to go, just make sure its safe from predators, chemicals, thieves and escape. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Roxie]

Thanks for the help. As I wrote in my first post, lol, he lives outside now so he has 24/7 outside time. I so totally and completely understand the necessity of natural sunshine. The ratios were calculated by me from a comparison of dry matter of various grasses. The composition studies were done by the USDA. Just a fyi, not trying to be a smarty...really. It's just that I do have some background with reptiles, just new to torts.

Thank you for answering my question that he should not be soft at all. He is about 5-6" in length. He came to me soft, but I thought it was normal hatchling soft. I will be getting a cuttle bone, supplementing more, cutting out the fruit, and soaking again. Thanks again guys! It's a tremendous help! Since he's out in the sun so much, should I use D3 or not? I know herbivorous lizards such as igs do not utilize dietary D3. Are torts the same, relying almost entirely on the UVB?

 

[yagyujubei]

Brand new bone is more flexible than older bone. I suspect this is what you're seeing. It will firm up very quickly.

 

[Roxie]

Here are some photos of "Elvis"

He has a lot of little concentric circles around his scutes. The dividing line on his plastron has gotten wider recently and that has me concerned about growth spurts and softness. I let him out in the yard to graze but I have to be RIGHT there since we have a lot of hawks in the woods behind the house. I caught one the other day watching him and the iguana. I also pick the yard for goodies to eat along with grocery store greens (collard, etc).

Enclosure 6' x 6' (work in progress). Grass seed has been planted and I'm looking for a good source of organic plants to place in there. The water pool is just a shallow paint bucket for now. I'll gladly take suggestions for improvement.

 

[dmarcus]

The enclosure looks very nice, he looks good from what I can see, if you have to time can you get any close up shots?

 

[Tom]

Elvis looks great and so does that enclosure. The pic is small and "Elvis" is young, but I'm guessing female.

The concentric rings are often referred to as "growth rings".

 

[Roxie]

We were parepared for name change. My daughter is my successor and we have Elvy lined up in case, haha. How can you tell? Tom, thanks for your article. If I hadn't have read that a few weeks ago, Elvis may have been doomed to a life of stunted growth and pyramiding. Everything else I had seen seemed to indicate that desert torts should be fed more sparingly and it was ok to keep them dry with daily soaks.

Are the rings looking normal then? Do they solidify and change appearance?

 

[Tom]

I use tinypic.com to post pics. Its really easy and you don't need an account and you don't have to give them ANY info. Just a free easy to use site. This will give you bigger, more easily seen pics like this:

Take a closer pic of the shell, in good light like the ones you posted, and we'll be better able to see the shell. Try to get some in profile too. From what I can see in your pics everything looks just fine and dandy. If you also get a closer pic of the cloacal region, just like the one you posted only closer, showing the tail and anal scutes very well, we can make better sex guesses. I guessed female because of the shape of the anal scutes and the size of the tail, BUT, it is too early to be sure. Its just sort of "looking" female to me.

Their appearance does tend to change over time. They tend to lighten up and over the years the shell tends to "weather". I've seen sulcatas about the size of yours that had some significant pyramiding, and only a few years later look perfectly smooth and gorgeous. So starting out at the point where you are (not pyramiding at all), you are going to have one gorgeous adult when she/he is all grown up.

 

[Roxie]

Bottom photos:

Profile:

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Nice looking tortoise.

 

[Tom]

Great pics. Now that I can see the cloaca region better, I have to say it shows nothing one way or the other to me. It could go either way.

The shell looks really good. Your routine seems to agree with Elvis. All the sunshine should firm that shell right up over the summer.

 

[Roxie]

haha, it makes no difference to us whether it is male or female, but it is fun to know. We'll just wait a while. Thanks for the compliments and help. Elvis (or Elvy) is a lot of fun to have around!