Substrate and feeding question

[lisa127]

I have two box turtles and my favorite substrate to use with them is sphagnum moss mixed with coco fiber. But I'm thinking I'd love to leave worms in the tank for them to hunt as I've heard others do this. For those who do this, does anyone use sphagnum moss or coco fiber? Would it be safe? I really worry about impaction. Please give opinions.

 

[dmarcus]

I use a combo of topsoil and sphagnum moss and it has worms in it, all I have to do is lift up there water bowl or feeding dish and I can find worms for them to eat. They tend to bury about 2 or 3 inches into the soil and the also drag there worms down into the holes they create.

If you keep them hydrated then you should not have any issue with impaction...

 

[turtlemann2]

well the moss, is similer in structure to the very veggies they eat, so i would see little harm if they did injest any now if that is all they had to eat then yes this would be an issue but as it stands the occational amount of spagnum peat moss wont hurt anyone

 

[lisa127]

It's not sphagnum peat moss. It's long fibered new zealand sphagnum moss. And the coco fiber stuff.

 

[terryo]

I only use the new zealand (my favorite kind) on the side of the viv under some plants for them to dig under. For the rest of the substrate, I use regular soil, mixed with some coco coir. I put in a lot of pill bugs and small worms when I make the viv. When they hide under the moss, they always find a pill bug or a worm. When they're hiding under leaf litter in the wild, they will get lots of dirt with any bug that they're eating.

 

[pryncesssc]

I only use the new zealand (my favorite kind) on the side of the viv under some plants for them to dig under. For the rest of the substrate, I use regular soil, mixed with some coco coir. I put in a lot of pill bugs and small worms when I make the viv. When they hide under the moss, they always find a pill bug or a worm. When they're hiding under leaf litter in the wild, they will get lots of dirt with any bug that they're eating.

That's very true . When I let my hatchling go outside in my moms garden she eats everything , but she usually spits out the stuff that isn't good . They are very smart !

 

[lisa127]

Ok, thanks for everyones opinion. It looks like I'll give it a shot. I think they would enjoy hunting for their worms.

 

[turtlemann2]

That's very true . When I let my hatchling go outside in my moms garden she eats everything , but she usually spits out the stuff that isn't good . They are very smart !

did you know native american did not eat box turtles? not because they werent abundant, not because they didnt taste good. but because of the wild mushrooms and fungus the boxies would injest. these toxins didnt hurt the turtle but were stored in the fat and meat. so that when a native american would consume a box turtle he would get sick from the toxins and sometimes die? just goes to show that turtles have a high tolerance for (non edible) plants

 

[terryo]

That's very true . When I let my hatchling go outside in my moms garden she eats everything , but she usually spits out the stuff that isn't good . They are very smart !

did you know native american did not eat box turtles? not because they werent abundant, not because they didnt taste good. but because of the wild mushrooms and fungus the boxies would injest. these toxins didnt hurt the turtle but were stored in the fat and meat. so that when a native american would consume a box turtle he would get sick from the toxins and sometimes die? just goes to show that turtles have a high tolerance for (non edible) plants

Very true Scott. Years ago, even before I was born, my Dad always had box turtles in our yard. He was a Gardner, and had every kind of plant in there. No computers, and he couldn't speak English too well. He didn't even know half of the names for them, but he knew how to take care of them. My oldest box turtle, which we inherited from him was well over 65 years old when he died. Only two Summers ago he didn't come up from hibernation. Today we would never think of putting any plant in our enclosures that we didn't look up to make sure it was edible. Of course our turtles are in a much smaller garden, so they have less options. He never fed his turtles, only had a few small ponds for water. Loads of vegetables, and fruit trees....and of course fig tree all over the yard. Whatever fell to the ground they ate. He had a really big compost section in the back of the yard where they forged for worms and bugs. Years ago I had an article printed in a local newspaper about Frank our box turtle. I have to look for it.

 

[turtlemann2]

with the internet and the access to vast amounts of information we should all consider it our duty to look things up and verify weather or not they are safe, for example planting a fir tree in the boxie pen would be a bad abd bad idea while a japanese maple would be a wonderful idea terry i would be very interested in what the article was about

 

[jojodesca]

I have noticed that we have lots of info on the internet, but throughout reading this forum I have noticed most of us ask Terryo about what to plant in our vivariums and gardens..lol....i put worms in my enclosures, however my turtles eat them up before they ever get a chance to hunt for them....either that or i find them dried up under log where they didn't dig down....in fact did was trying to eat worm jerky the other day!...

 

[lisa127]

In reading through the forums, I get conflicting opinions on the coco coir. Some think it's great and is fine if ingested, others say they won't use it because of the strands in it. It's very frustrating. Maybe I should change my coco coir to sphagnum peat moss.

 

[turtlemann2]

Worm Jerky itll be all the rage!

 

[jojodesca]

In reading through the forums, I get conflicting opinions on the coco coir. Some think it's great and is fine if ingested, others say they won't use it because of the strands in it. It's very frustrating. Maybe I should change my coco coir to sphagnum peat moss.

I used to only use coco coir...for years until i joined the forum. I now use a mix of top soil (organic) coco coir and frog moss....mis it all up and through in some pebbles to give it a more natural "forest" type feeling....a lot of ppl have different ideas.

 

[lisa127]

I don't use only coco coir. I use new zealand spaghnum moss mixed into the coco coir. Actually the mix is probably slightly more sphagnum moss than coco coir. My biggest concern is what is safest concerning impaction.

 

[jojodesca]

Although I think it is normal for boxies to taste whats around them, if you find your is in fact eating it on a regular basis, you might want to switch it out.....try using a organic top soil blend with it but at a 70-30 mix..plus the worms you want to leave in there would do better in a soil based substrate....imo

 

[Saloli]

I include native plants in my terrariums though some are known to be toxic to mammals, but what isn't toxic to mammals (which is what most toxic plant lists are based on) maybe toxic to turtles. They generally will recognize species they can't eat just like with the insects. Which is why I don't keep plants and animals from different locations together. If you keep species that are from different places together you are more likely to run into problems. But as far as the sphagnum moss goes it is edible I have seen Spotted turtles eating it in the bog by my Dad's house.

 

[lisa127]

I think it is more the coco coir I worry about. Some swear by it and say it is digestible and others say it will cause impaction. It's very frustrating.

 

[terryo]

I was just thinking of something. If your boxies are hatchlings or small babies they most likely won't find the worms anyway. The worms will go under a rock or the water dish..feeding dish...etc. If I keep an adult in for any reason, they will always be digging looking for a worm or something. The really small ones, I'll see getting a pill bug, but rarely see them finding a big worm. Oh...don't put any meal worms in there. I lost two hatchlings years ago from meal worms that turned into big beetles. They ate the hatchlings and left two perfect shells. A real horror.

 

[lisa127]

I was just thinking of something. If your boxies are hatchlings or small babies they most likely won't find the worms anyway. The worms will go under a rock or the water dish..feeding dish...etc. If I keep an adult in for any reason, they will always be digging looking for a worm or something. The really small ones, I'll see getting a pill bug, but rarely see them finding a big worm. Oh...don't put any meal worms in there. I lost two hatchlings years ago from meal worms that turned into big beetles. They ate the hatchlings and left two perfect shells. A real horror.

Oh my, Terry, that is so incredibly sad. No, I wasn't planning on mealworms in there. My boxies are 1.5 years old and 8 months old. 3 1/3 inches SCL and 2 inches SCL. Maybe I'll just keep feeding the way I have been for now. Substrate is such a frustrating issue!