sub species

[Yvonne G]

I'm curious why we are so concerned to keep the sub species of Greek tortoise pure, but not so concerned about the Russians. I've been trying to GOOGLE the different sub species to see the characteristics of each sub species, and there isn't any information on them other than to identify their name. As popular as the Russian is in the U.S. I'm concerned that we won't have any "pure" Russians here in a few years with all the cross-breeding we are doing.

Yvonne

 

[Itort]

How many subspecies are there?

 

[Yvonne G]

I know for sure, three, but maybe 4. T. horsfieldii kazachtanica, T. horsfieldii rustmovi and T. horsfieldii horsfieldii.

Yvonne

 

[egyptiandan]

I feel the same way Yvonne. It does seem that all 3 subspecies are coming in or have come into the country within the last 10 years.
Thats why I have split mine up into 3 groups. When I find a free minute I will take pictures of everybody. Showing shell shape and height.

Danny

 

[Yvonne G]

Thanks, Dan: That would be a big help. I have about 15 Russians, and I don't like the idea of having different sub-species together in the same pen. But can't find any characteristic info about them on the 'net. The only difference I see among them is the large yellow females and the smaller group of black ones. Its going to be fun trying to differenciate!

Yvonne

 

[jasso2]

good i have 9 and i didnt know about the sub species. pics would really help dan, thanks.

 

[Jentortmom]

I agree with you yvonne I have been trying to compare mine to see the differences so that I can seperate mine before this spring. I have some that seem darker and rounder with others being yellower and more oval then round in shape, pictures would definatly be a help. I had emailed a guy a while back about it but never got a response from him - such a bummer.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Sorry to bump up an old thread, but I'm very interested in seeing some pictures of the different RT subspecies to identify my little guy. =)

 

[egyptiandan]

Fell down on the job with this Kate I'll get going on pictures soon.
I don't think though it's possible to determine a hatchlings subspecies. I haven't gotten hatchlings yet from my 3 groups. You would need pictures of the parents to determine subspecies.
Basicly the subspecies go like this.

Testudo horsfieldi horsfieldi: the carapace is domed and round

Testudo horsfieldi kazachstanica: the carapace is flat topped and round

Testudo horsfieldi rustamovi: the carapace is domed and elongated

Danny

 

[Yvonne G]

So color has nothing to do with it? I always thought my little black males were a different sub species from my big yellow females.

Yvonne

 

[egyptiandan]

Color is very variable in Russians. Especially the amount of black. Ground color of the shell can be diagnostic, but not the amount of black.
Black is a response to cooler temperatures and the need to heat up quicker, so black animals are usually from altitude.

Danny

 

[tortoisenerd]

Very interesting! On russiantortoise.org they had the tidbit about carapace shape, but also gave a color comparison. No pictures. I guess I'll have to wait until little guy grows up to think about this more. He just has a very distinct greenish hue to him I haven't seen much in my web searching (what attracted me to him actually). Thanks for the help.