Still passing gritty urates

yay14

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Did you just feed dried weeds without mixing them with some fresh leaves?
How often do you just feed dried weeds alone?
I don't feed them without greens but they made up like 30 % of the meal if not more
 

Lyn W

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Maybe stop the dried food for a while and just feed a variety of fresh leaves - soak them to hydrate them before feeding and see if that improves things, but also follow Marks suggestions to check temps etc.
 

yay14

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Maybe stop the dried food for a while and just feed a variety of fresh leaves - soak them to hydrate them before feeding and see if that improves things, but also follow Marks suggestions to check temps etc.
Yea i will do that since i do think these are the ones leading to the urates/stones, and i will make sure all the temps are good. but what do you mean soak them before feeding? I dont think i should feed them at all soaked or not since i am pretty sure they're the root to the problems i am having. Also if the dried stinging nesstles are the problem should everything fix itself out if i stop feeding it.
 

yay14

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Ok so i read about stingning nettles on the tortoise table where it said only feed young leaves in moderation becuse fully grown leaves contains a substance that can irritate the kidneys. And since the dried ones i have been feeding i am pretty sure ar fully grown and i have not been giving it in moderation i think this really shows that the dried nettles are the problem,
Since it's also the only thing in his life that changed and out of nowhare hes passing gritty urates almost everyday.
So what i think i am going to do is book a vet appointment to make sure he does not have any more bladder stones in him, and if he does not have any more bladder stones, are thing as easy as to just stop giving the dried nettles and thing will work itselves out?
 

Gijoux

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The thing is what i have fed was not a mix but only dried
stinging nettles

So thats why i think it could be a problem since i don't think those are all to good.

Yes i supplement calcium twice a week miner-all once a week and i am going to start putting drops of bird vitamins in his soak once a week

Also the other things i am feeding right now are stuff i got from a caresheet here on the forum so i am pretty confident on those and have not had a problem until i started giving those dried stinging nettles.
Miner-all is also a calcium source. Giving a Calcium source 3 times per week is probably too much Calcium. The Miner-All is a good product.
 

yay14

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Miner-all is also a calcium source. Giving a Calcium source 3 times per week is probably too much Calcium. The Miner-All is a good product.
Hmm okay that might be the case since that’s also something that’s recently changed in his life, the amount I supplement. this is the amount recommended by many in an other thread I made. But is 3 times a week really a bunch for a yearling? I thought it was a good amount for torts that age but I might be incorrect then.
 

Gijoux

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IMHO I believe with a good varied diet one would not want to nor need to supplement 3 times per week with a Calcium Supplement. Urates are basically unrelated to Calcium intake, but too much poorly absorbed Calcium can interfere with the pH of the tortoise, which can create problems with Purine metabolism and because Urate readily combines with electrolytes like sodium and calcium, with more Calcium present, the likelihood of Urate formation is increased. Ca++ requires a more acidic environment, which contributes to "greater precipitation of purine based Urates" (Markw84). Many of the common foods we feed tortoises contain High amounts of Calcium anyway. Absorption is important to insure the calcium gets where it is supposed to go. Vitamin D is the key to proper Calcium absorption. Vitamin D absorption is based on UV exposure. Winter, for most of us, results in a lot less time outdoors for natural Vitamin D production, so you need to make sure your UV source is truly producing optimum UV levels to make sure the tortoise is actually absorbing the calcium and not just having it precipitate into the urine, joints, and brain. Cooler temperatures of winter, as mentioned previously, is another major factor for Urate formation. I use a Solarmeter to check my UV levels being produced. I also use the HO T5 bulbs to insure good UV to my torts.
 

yay14

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IMHO I believe with a good varied diet one would not want to nor need to supplement 3 times per week with a Calcium Supplement. Urates are basically unrelated to Calcium intake, but too much poorly absorbed Calcium can interfere with the pH of the tortoise, which can create problems with Purine metabolism and because Urate readily combines with electrolytes like sodium and calcium, with more Calcium present, the likelihood of Urate formation is increased. Ca++ requires a more acidic environment, which contributes to "greater precipitation of purine based Urates" (Markw84). Many of the common foods we feed tortoises contain High amounts of Calcium anyway. Absorption is important to insure the calcium gets where it is supposed to go. Vitamin D is the key to proper Calcium absorption. Vitamin D absorption is based on UV exposure. Winter, for most of us, results in a lot less time outdoors for natural Vitamin D production, so you need to make sure your UV source is truly producing optimum UV levels to make sure the tortoise is actually absorbing the calcium and not just having it precipitate into the urine, joints, and brain. Cooler temperatures of winter, as mentioned previously, is another major factor for Urate formation. I use a Solarmeter to check my UV levels being produced. I also use the HO T5 bulbs to insure good UV to my torts.
Ok yea you're probably right. But with the urate thing I still think it was the dried stinging nettles becuse as soon as i stopped feeding them about 5 days ago the urates have stopped, and when i did feed them he was passing gritty urates pretty much everyday. So i feel like the gritty urates just completely stopping the day i stopped feeding the dried nettles is good proof that it was them that caused the gritty urates/bladder stone.
 

harrythetortoise

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Ok yea you're probably right. But with the urate thing I still think it was the dried stinging nettles becuse as soon as i stopped feeding them about 5 days ago the urates have stopped, and when i did feed them he was passing gritty urates pretty much everyday. So i feel like the gritty urates just completely stopping the day i stopped feeding the dried nettles is good proof that it was them that caused the gritty urates/bladder stone.
It could be the dried nettles, but I would still monitor for the urates as I don't think they disappear right away after you stop feeding something (even if that was the culprit). It takes time to develop into stones.
 

yay14

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It could be the dried nettles, but I would still monitor for the urates as I don't think they disappear right away after you stop feeding something (even if that was the culprit). It takes time to develop into stones.
Yes i will still moniter for a while to make sure it's really them that are the problem, But if it turns out they are the problem are things as easy as to just not feed the nettles and things will fix itself out? like would everything just be fine then and he would get healthy if I just don't feed the dried nettles, or are they're any more thing i need to do for him to recover or for the gritty urates to dissapear?
 

harrythetortoise

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Yes i will still moniter for a while to make sure it's really them that are the problem, But if it turns out they are the problem are things as easy as to just not feed the nettles and things will fix itself out? like would everything just be fine then and he would get healthy if I just don't feed the dried nettles, or are they're any more thing i need to do for him to recover or for the gritty urates to dissapear?
I think if you stop feeding the dried nettles and don't see gritty urates anymore for several weeks, it would mean he would be back to health.
 

yay14

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I think if you stop feeding the dried nettles and don't see gritty urates anymore for several weeks, it would mean he would be back to health.
Good to hear but what if he has any more bladder stones in him would those just pass then?
 

harrythetortoise

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Good to hear but what if he has any more bladder stones in him would those just pass then?
If they are small enough, then hopefully they will just pass. Have him eat some cactus pads, they are good laxatives and has high water content too.
 

yay14

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If they are small enough, then hopefully they will just pass. Have him eat some cactus pads, they are good laxatives and has high water content too.
Yea if they are any they should be small since they have not had a long time to form. Also would things like cucumber and aloe also work as laxatives? Also after all of this mess wil he return to health completely like any of this never happened?
 

harrythetortoise

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Yea if they are any they should be small since they have not had a long time to form. Also would things like cucumber and aloe also work as laxatives? Also after all of this mess wil he return to health completely like any of this never happened?
Yes, just keep monitoring him daily though. Aloe and cucumber are good laxatives too.
 

yay14

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Ok so i just got home and i saw he had passed some urates, they were still gritty but waaaay smoother than before, they were almost completely smoth it was just that they were kind of sandy on the inside. So the fact that they still had some gritt to them but way less than before is that a sign of things getting better and him returning to health?
 

harrythetortoise

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Ok so i just got home and i saw he had passed some urates, they were still gritty but waaaay smoother than before, they were almost completely smoth it was just that they were kind of sandy on the inside. So the fact that they still had some gritt to them but way less than before is that a sign of things getting better and him returning to health?
Yes I think so!
 

yay14

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Well now i am just confused, today when soaking he pased some very gritty urates, when yesterday they were almost completely smooth, Do you think these are just a aftermath of the fomer problems and these are not projecting his current condition or what do you guys think? This was also in his urates, now is this a fully formed bladder stone or just urate? It' only a milimeter big, so extremely small.
 

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