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pguinpro
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I want to get RHP's and some more CHE's. This is the first time I've heard of MVB causing pyramiding. Can you link the tube light that provided uvb?
Spur thigh (now called sulcata)
- Thread starter Trickbill985
- Start date
MVBs are extremely desiccating on tortoise shells, and a good way to start pyramiding. While they work great with other reptiles, they are definitely not for tortoises.
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pguinpro
Guest
Desiccation? Tell me how a tube or CHE is any different?! I feel like you two are just pulling rabbits out of the hat now; pathetic. How is a CHE or Tube any different? They all emit heat! Some UVB and others not. If it's far enough away I don't think there is going to be any desiccation. Your claims are baseless and without evidence. Impossible to please the elitists on this forum and I'm tired of it, bye!
What? Tube UVB’s produce almost no heat at all, and do not focus heat in one spot like MVBs. CHES, while slightly desiccating, do not have the intended purpose of being used for “desert animals”, and are not “spot” bulbs like MVBs. Things that give off heat are not automatically desiccating. Have you ever felt the difference between holding your hand over a heat pad of holding your hand near fire? Even if you hold your hand far enough away to where it’s the same temperature as the heat pad, the fire still feels like it’s going to burn you.
Without evidence? There is tons of evidence. @wellington , for example(hope you don’t mind me using you
) raised multiple leopards in a great closed chamber with high humidity, yet the leopards still pyramided because of her MVB. There is so, so much evidence, if you’ll just look for it. Not sure where you got the idea that there was none.The problem with it being far away enough is that, while the heat may reach the tortoise, the actual uvb likely won’t. Any distance that it will is just too desiccating.
Heat does not equal desiccation. It’s how the heat is dispersed, and the wavelengths of energy(heat) that are produced. I suggest that you do some more research into it.
How many baby tortoises have you raised under mercury vapor bulbs? I've raised a whole bunch. They all pyramided. They are the wrong lamp to hang over a tortoise. In time, after you've done it a time or two, you'll learn this lesson, and every time you look at your tortoise for the rest of its life, you'll be reminded of why to not use MVBs.
An MVB won't make good levels of UV at 24".
Aracadia 12% HO bulbs will. So says my UV meter.
Florescent tubes don't make much heat. CHEs emit long wave radiation which is less desiccating than the high levels of IR-A emitted by MVBs. CHE's are also usually mounted at greater distances, and are not meant to be used as basking sources. CHEs are meant to maintain ambient temps. Mine are only on at night when the tortoises are sleeping in their hides.
These are not baseless claims. These are hard earned real lessons learned by using this equipment in a variety of ways over lots and lots of different tortoises. This forum allows you to get the benefit of all this experience and experimentation without having to learn all this the hard way at the expense of your tortoise.
I used to use MVBs and recommend them. I was wrong. I learned better. I hope to keep learning new and better things and continually refine my methods and techniques. When I do learn new things, I come here and try to pass it on so other people don't have to do what I did.
Trickbill985
New Member
Ok can I switch to this in 6 months with minimal pyramiding? Just got the mvb a couple days ago
I understand the expense in these bulbs and wanting too still use it. Using it for 6 months will cause more then minimal pyramiding.
You could save it for an emergency back up for those times another one of your heat or light sources blows/breaks
The best way to avoid pyramiding is to prevent it in the first place. After 6 months you will have significant pyramiding and once it starts it is very difficult to stop.
I'd return that bulb to wherever you got it and use something that will not be so damaging to your tortoises shell.
Trickbill985
New Member
Thanks Tom. So this and what watt basking light do you think?
Perfect! In my enclosures, 18-20" is about the right mounting height for strong UV. Be sure the tortoise has shade and shelter to get away from the bright light if it wants to.
Trickbill985
New Member
What about for heat?
Trickbill985
New Member
Can you also post pix of ur enclosures?
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
- Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them.
- Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
- Light. I use florescent tubes or LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
- UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height.
Then your tortoise is NOT called a spur thigh. The sulcata species is sometimes called an African spurred tortoise, but NEVER a spur thigh! This is why the Greek is called a spur thigh:
My friend Google isn't able to find pictures of sulcata spurs, but I'm assuming it refers to the SCALES on the front legs:
They do have spurs on their back legs.
Back to your enclosure. It's going to be ok for a hatchling sulcata for maybe a year or two, but they grow very fast and he will soon outgrow that space.
Blakes exotic animal ranch repeatedly refers to the sulcata as an african spur thigh. Ive read about the african spurred tortoise but after watching the youtube video. Your subliminal cant help to get confused.
The info and tortoise care in youtube can be so misleading
He also burnt his ranch to the ground. I have to admit I have read many misleading info on this. I have read a lot of info that refers to them as African spur thigh and that they got their name from the spurs on the back legs. Anymore, I just call them sulcata tortoises and not bother with spur thigh.
Trickbill985
New Member
When do you dust with calcium and multivitamins?
If the diet is varied you shouldn't need to give calcium. If you give calcium I wouldn't do more than twice a week and multivitamins I would alternate. Just be careful with the calcium and don't give too much. I would just leave a cuttlebone in the enclosure and not worry about calcium.
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