5 Year Member
- Aug 13, 2012
- Location (City and/or State)
- Miami, Florida
Jacqui said:RedfootsRule said:Jacqui, the "personal use" part of my post was about your point c and yagyujubei. When you say you prefer WC because they are "less expensive" I can draw no other conclusion from it...
Obviously, we need to take some WC of the species that have not yet been bred in captivity to get some assurance groups in place. But those that are being bred, we need to leave alone.
The price comment is one I also make because I think folks who really are concerned about taking more from the wild, should be pricing their captive hatchlings at the same price as a wild one. I am not going to get into, well they need to make a profit, I am just looking at if you make your captives the same price as a wild one, more would buy captive. Price is an object. I myself want the majority of my money going to better housing and feeding, not on purchase price.
If I can get a pair(m/f) of WC adult Bells hingebacks for $200 or spend $600 on a pair (two animals unsexed) of CB Bells, which one makes more sense to somebody trying to get breeding going? Not only would I know I have a pair, but they would be breeding sooner, but I have that $400 to spend on making a larger more nature enclosure for them. I would spend the next several years waiting for those captives to grow up and hope they are a pair (even then they would be less of a pair because no doubt they are siblings). I have been there done that, wasted several years and the space that could have been used for actual producing animals and then ended up with only males. Even folks with "noble" purpose do need to look at price and being upfront about it should not be used as a point against those folks. You may be a person of unlimited income, most of us have to count our pennies and make them stretch.
There is an issue there...Tell me when have you seen wild caught hatchlings? I certainly never have. And you will find that most breeders' hatchlings are cheaper then the wild caught juvenilles/adults. (Obviously species specific, I'm just speaking of some of them.)
Assuming by "folks with noble purposes" you mean those that are trying to breed the rarer species to have more of those species in the wild and relive pressure on wild-caught; those same folks should have the sense not to buy wild-caught in the beginning if it is their goal to eliminate it. (Assuming there are CB tortoises of the species they are attempting to breed).
I find it interesting that you assume I am a "person with unlimited income" just because I believe we should be prepared to spend extra money on CB and not buy the cheaper WC. Well, that is definitely my belief. I would sooner spend $1000 on a red foot then buy a $100 wild-caught tortoise, and I say that with full confidence. (And if I didn't have the $1000, then I believe I have no right to own the animal) I would never support WC on species such as this.
To often, money seems to come into play when owning animals. It is my opinion (and everyone can argue and spin this any way they want) that you SHOULDN'T GET THE ANIMAL if you don't have the money to spend! To often we see this as people get dogs, cats, tortoises, any animals, and then say "Well my tortoise has URTI buy I don't have the money to spend on a vet...". You should not get into owning animals in the first place if you don't have the funds.
However, thats straying off topic. We're talking about WC vs CB.
You know my beliefs, and I feel I understand yours. I don't think there is any more arguing to be had between us...