South Florida - New Enclosure - Red Foot or Sulcata?

tim1088

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Hey guys thank you for letting me join this awesome website. I live in South Florida and my son and I are really enjoying raising young turtles and now venturing into the Tortoise world. Our experience has been with aquatic species and we converted a garden bed that is around 20 feet long by 4 ft deep into a cool space for them to live. My original thought was that we could mix tortoises in there with them and keep the water features shallow, but quickly realized that we need a larger dedicated space for tortoises.

I have an area on the side of my home that is naturally enclosed by my home and a PVC fence on 3 sides, so we put up a 2x6 barrier 3 ft high. It is 12 ft by 14 ft with a sandy soil substrate and will get direct sunlight for 8 or so hours a day. We are just getting situated now with building a shaded side and planting some plants for foraging whenever we are ready for the new inhabitant.

I have the opportunity to adopt a healthy 2 year old Sulcata, or 3 adult Red Foot tortoises which have been living together since they were born. My biggest concern is to choose which one will fare the best in my climate as much of the year as possible. I have the space to bring them inside when needed, but would like to design the space to allow for the most time living in their new enclosure.

I'm doing a lot of research through reading the Sticky posts, the well thought out post by Tom, and as much other information that already is on the site. I feel confident we can house the Sulcata at his current size comfortably however as he grows we'd need to expand his area. The Red Foots the biggest benefit I see with them is that they can likely stay in size space that we currently have designed for a longer time. The Red Foot might also be more comfortable during the rainy season, even though there will be a covered area with dry floor either way.

I hope that this isn't too vague but my son and I truly appreciate your insight. We really want to start out on the right foot when bringing in a new species to our home and set ourselves up to succeed.
 

wellington

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They both will do fine in the climate but not the size area you have. The sulcata for sure will need a much much bigger space and they grow fast
A single RF will do fine in the space, but not sure three will. Plus RF need lots of shade coverage.
@ZEROPILOT can confirm if they space is big enough for 3.
However, if it's three males or two males and one female, they all will need their own space.
 

Ink

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Welcome to the forum
 

ZEROPILOT

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I'm in south Florida too.
Redfoot do really well here.
But even if space isn't an issue, once the tortoises are mature, having more than one male will be a very large problem.
3 females will probably be ok in a very large enclosure outdoors. But every male will need his own enclosure or at least 3 females to spread out the agression.
Redfoot avoid the direct Florida sunlight for the most part and prefer shade.
Sulcata like the sun. (From what I understand)
Both will require some sort of a pool.
This is a short video of my RF enclosure.

 

tim1088

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Here are the ones I could get, I don't know if they're too young to tell though. I don't see any concave really in photos so maybe all female? Last guy has a longer tail maybe.
 

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Littleredfootbigredheart

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I could be totally wrong here, I’m sure others will chime in, but looking at those photos, they all appear to have some shell rot, especially the one in that last photo, maybe it’s just the pictures though idk
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Are there three or four different tortoises on the photos? Or the photos were made at different time for one of them?

It could be a male on the third (3) photo (looks like "peanut" shaped shell is forming). Not totally sure about the last picture, but it's not a male tail. All need to be treated for shell fungus (with a cheap "athlete's foot" cream). It may be an old fungial infection, though (hard to tell with dirty plastron).

Shell condition on the fourth photo is really concerning, I hope it's just the dirt and not holes around the hind legs. Also, it looks like it's pyramided (you can see bumps on the sides of the shell between the fingers). While pyramiding is common among captive raised redfoots and is pure a cosmetic thing it often comes along with other problems like MBD (metabolic bone disease). This tortoise needs proper care and rescuing more than others.
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

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Are there three or four different tortoises on the photos? Or the photos were made at different time for one of them?

It could be a male on the third (3) photo (looks like "peanut" shaped shell is forming). Not totally sure about the last picture, but it's not a male tail. All need to be treated for shell fungus (with a cheap "athlete's foot" cream). It may be an old fungial infection, though (hard to tell with dirty plastron).

Shell condition on the fourth photo is really concerning, I hope it's just the dirt and not holes around the hind legs. Also, it looks like it's pyramided (you can see bumps on the sides of the shell between the fingers). While pyramiding is common among captive raised redfoots and is pure a cosmetic thing it often comes along with other problems like MBD (metabolic bone disease). This tortoise needs proper care and rescuing more than others.
Yeah I found that last picture particularly concerning, poor lil guy😞
 

wellington

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Are there three or four different tortoises on the photos? Or the photos were made at different time for one of them?

It could be a male on the third (3) photo (looks like "peanut" shaped shell is forming). Not totally sure about the last picture, but it's not a male tail. All need to be treated for shell fungus (with a cheap "athlete's foot" cream). It may be an old fungial infection, though (hard to tell with dirty plastron).

Shell condition on the fourth photo is really concerning, I hope it's just the dirt and not holes around the hind legs. Also, it looks like it's pyramided (you can see bumps on the sides of the shell between the fingers). While pyramiding is common among captive raised redfoots and is pure a cosmetic thing it often comes along with other problems like MBD (metabolic bone disease). This tortoise needs proper care and rescuing more than others.
Hmmm, pyramiding comes along with other problems like MBD? I never heard that before and don't think it's true. Pyramiding is dry conditions. MBD is poor nutrition, low calcium and low Vitamin D or inadequate UV B light leading to Vitamin D and calcium deficiency, not pyramiding.
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

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Hmmm, pyramiding comes along with other problems like MBD? I never heard that before and don't think it's true. Pyramiding is dry conditions. MBD is poor nutrition, low calcium and low Vitamin D or inadequate UV B light leading to Vitamin D and calcium deficiency, not pyramiding.
Whilst I know dry conditions is usually the main factor contributing towards pyramiding, I’m pretty sure lack of the right lighting and nutrients can contribute to it as well?
I’ve seen lots of folks say when there’s extremely severe pyramiding there’s likely MBD going on? If the pyramiding has caused them to be practically deformed, leading to issues with walking etc, that would then lead to it being more difficult for them to digest said nutrients.. making them more vulnerable to MBD, no?
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Hmmm, pyramiding comes along with other problems like MBD? I never heard that before and don't think it's true. Pyramiding is dry conditions. MBD is poor nutrition, low calcium and low Vitamin D or inadequate UV B light leading to Vitamin D and calcium deficiency, not pyramiding.
Exactly. Severe (not mild) pyramiding is a result of wrong husbandry. Which often means wrong diet, heating/lightning setup and so on. I do my homework and understand the root causes :)
 

tim1088

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These are not ones that I own and it is 4 individual photos taken at the same time. Hopefully we can provide a good new home for them but before I go down that road I wanted to make sure I'm also capable with the space and location I have. We are very willing to learn and put in the effort to do this correctly.

The sulcata is also not kept in good conditions, I think it spends a lot of time in a 10 gallon glass enclosure! I'm sure even my best attempt will be better than what they're getting now.
 

Maggie3fan

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Here are the ones I could get, I don't know if they're too young to tell though. I don't see any concave really in photos so maybe all female? Last guy has a longer tail maybe.
These are not ones that I own and it is 4 individual photos taken at the same time. Hopefully we can provide a good new home for them but before I go down that road I wanted to make sure I'm also capable with the space and location I have. We are very willing to learn and put in the effort to do this correctly.

The sulcata is also not kept in good conditions, I think it spends a lot of time in a 10 gallon glass enclosure! I'm sure even my best attempt will be better than what they're getting now.
I'm so confused...I just looked at 4 tortoises who are rotted, and skinny, and dirty...but those are not the 3 Redfoot you are expecting to rescue? I confess to being a slow thinker...so please tell me what's going on???
 

Maggie3fan

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These are not ones that I own and it is 4 individual photos taken at the same time. Hopefully we can provide a good new home for them but before I go down that road I wanted to make sure I'm also capable with the space and location I have. We are very willing to learn and put in the effort to do this correctly.

The sulcata is also not kept in good conditions, I think it spends a lot of time in a 10 gallon glass enclosure! I'm sure even my best attempt will be better than what they're getting now.
the Sulcata should be about the size of a quarter to live in a 10 gallon tank...
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Whilst I know dry conditions is usually the main factor contributing towards pyramiding, I’m pretty sure lack of the right lighting and nutrients can contribute to it as well?
I’ve seen lots of folks say when there’s extremely severe pyramiding there’s likely MBD going on? If the pyramiding has caused them to be practically deformed, leading to issues with walking etc, that would then lead to it being more difficult for them to digest said nutrients.. making them more vulnerable to MBD, no?
It's MBD causes trouble with walking and manifests in shell deformation (because of bone growth anomaly and softer more porous bone structure). Pyramiding lays on top of it, when drying keratine layers put pressure on the soft bone tissue deforming it even further.
Here is good detailed post explaining how pyramiding works: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/pyramiding-–-solving-the-mystery.164261/
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

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It's MBD causes trouble with walking and manifests in shell deformation (because of bone growth anomaly and softer more porous bone structure). Pyramiding lays on top of it, when drying keratine layers put pressure on the soft bone tissue deforming it even further.
Here is good detailed post explaining how pyramiding works: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/pyramiding-–-solving-the-mystery.164261/
I’ll definitely give that a read, thanks Alex!
 

wellington

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Exactly. Severe (not mild) pyramiding is a result of wrong husbandry. Which often means wrong diet, heating/lightning setup and so on. I do my homework and understand the root causes :)
My leopard has severe pyramiding but no MBD. Wrong enclosure type back in the day but everything else was good. I wouldn't really relate the two. Severe pyramiding can happen without the rest of the husbandry being wrong, mine are proof!.
 

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