Russian Tortoise noob for two weeks.

[JoeyTortoise]

Hello all,

I’m new to being a tortoise caretaker thanks to my son wanting one for his bday this year. I’ve been reading through a lot of old posts here to gain insight and advice.

We’ve had the tortoise for a little over two weeks now and he barely eats. I’ve gotten him to eat some collard greens one day, squash another and cucumbers on others. One time had some flukers calcium powder on the greens and another time some zoo meds grassland tortoise pellets mixed into the squash.

He’s been fairly lethargic and hides a lot (sometimes a couple days) since getting him. I see no visible signs of sickness in his face but did notice his poop was runny when first getting him. Then as I got him to eat more he had more bird like looking poop the next days. I don’t believe he’s pooped the past few days though.

I’ve given him a Luke warm soaking every 2-3 days and he has come out to soak and drink from his water dish from time to time.

The first few days we had him he was in a tank the pet store sold us but I have since returned that and currently have him in the Aivituvin wooden house with substrate of a coco coir base and some Forrest floor and orchard bark on top.in his hide I have Timothy hay bunched up on one side.

I attached a couple picture I’ve taken the past week. Please let me know if you notice anything significant about his appearance that stands out signifying any sickness. I am on the search for a vet I can take him to but not sure any reptile specialists in my area.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. The tortoise isn't doing well because something is. or was, off. Most of the advice you get from most sources is terrible.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet at the bottom. These two threads should answer most of your questions and tell you what you need to know to fix the problem.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[JoeyTortoise]

Hello and welcome. The tortoise isn't doing well because something is. or was, off. Most of the advice you get from most sources is terrible.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet at the bottom. These two threads should answer most of your questions and tell you what you need to know to fix the problem.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for the reply and welcoming! Along with the link to the care sheet. I will do the best I can to follow all those rules to see if I can nurse him back to optimum health. Right now my challenges may be the food and the proper temperature.

The warm side is usually around 90 degrees and 30/40 humidity while his enclosed side for night is usually around 80 and 50 humidity. The basking bulb I have is a 75 watt repti basking spot lamp from zoo med.

He’s hiding in the pot I have in his enclosure that I put on it’s side and filled a bit with coco coir. The rest of the enclose mostly has orchard bark on top. Is it recommended to maybe only have the bark in certain areas and have other areas with only the coco coir to encourage burrowing? He seems to have burrowed a little inside the pot.

 

[SinLA]

Where did you get him from and do you know how old he is?

 

[JoeyTortoise]

I didn’t get him from pet smart or petco or any chain store like that but a local tropical imports pet shop that has fish mostly with a good selection of reptiles.

I didn’t get his age. One of the workers seemed to think he was 2 or 3 but I don’t think they’re super trustworthy. He did show sympathy though saying that the way they’re usually imported is really sad and he too seemed to be a little concerned over the condition of the tortoise. The owner was out of town though and should have returned this week so I am going to try to get in touch with him.

 

[SinLA]

Are You soaking him? I would follow that thread Tom gave and not bother with the pet store owner. How big is his enclosure?

 

[JoeyTortoise]

Are You soaking him? I would follow that thread Tom gave and not bother with the pet store owner. How big is his enclosure?

I’ve been soaking him every other day, sometimes two days in between, but maybe not warm enough water? Not usually cold water but maybe not quite warm enough?

His enclosure isn’t the biggest as we don’t have a ton of space to work with currently. It’s a little over 3 feet x a little under 2 feet.

 

[SinLA]

Yeah sounds like you’re doing all the usual “pet store” stuff. So Kim every day at temperature is about 95°. Put them in a bucket or something he can’t climb out of and put the water to wear his bottom shelf on the top shell meet. Replace the water once it gets soiled or cool. Soak about 30+ minutes at least daily till he looks better.

2‘ x 3‘ is not big enough I know they are sold as “ Tortoise houses“ but it’s just marketing, they need more space like 4 X 8 but stores don’t tell people that.

what is your lighting situation like?

please do read the link provided…

 

[JoeyTortoise]

Yeah sounds like you’re doing all the usual “pet store” stuff. So Kim every day at temperature is about 95°. Put them in a bucket or something he can’t climb out of and put the water to wear his bottom shelf on the top shell meet. Replace the water once it gets soiled or cool. Soak about 30+ minutes at least daily till he looks better.

2‘ x 3‘ is not big enough I know they are sold as “ Tortoise houses“ but it’s just marketing, they need more space like 4 X 8 but stores don’t tell people that.

what is your lighting situation like?

please do read the link provided…

Actually nothing I as recommended by the pet store. Everything I’m doing is based off of what I’ve read in these forums or watched in YouTube videos. The enclosure I bought was the one recommended by garden state tortoise or something like that? I know it’s not big enough but it’s the best I can do for now. Unless I move it will have to do for at least a few months. I will try to take him out and let him roam around my patio or at the park at least a few times a week.

Lighting situation currently have the mini combo deep dome lamp fixture from zoo med with a 75 watt basking lamp bulb and 10.0 repti sun uvb bulb. I did have his enclosure by a window for a week and a half for some natural sunlight.

 

[SinLA]

Actually nothing I as recommended by the pet store. Everything I’m doing is based off of what I’ve read in these forums or watched in YouTube videos. The enclosure I bought was the one recommended by garden state tortoise or something like that? I know it’s not big enough but it’s the best I can do for now. Unless I move it will have to do for at least a few months. I will try to take him out and let him roam around my patio or at the park at least a few times a week.

Lighting situation currently have the mini combo deep dome lamp fixture from zoo med with a 75 watt basking lamp bulb and 10.0 repti sun uvb bulb. I did have his enclosure by a window for a week and a half for some natural sunlight.

I’ll let @Tom comment on the lighting, but the thing about garden state Tortoise is, one they obviously pay him to promote their products, and two - he is very careful about the language he uses. If you go back and rewatch the video, you’ll notice, he’s very careful to say that those houses are only good for juvenile tortoises. He doesn’t dwell on the fact because again he is being paid to show the product, but he walks a fine line of indicating that these are OK for juvenile tortoises that are passed the stage of needing a closed chamber for humidity and are big enough for needing more space. Some would argue there is never that window

Unfortunately someones ability to provide the space a Tortoise needs doesn’t change what the Tortoise actually needs, so I definitely get it that you don’t have the space, it’s just doesn’t change the fact that the Tortoise needs more space to be healthy.

 

[Tom]

Actually nothing I as recommended by the pet store. Everything I’m doing is based off of what I’ve read in these forums or watched in YouTube videos. The enclosure I bought was the one recommended by garden state tortoise or something like that? I know it’s not big enough but it’s the best I can do for now. Unless I move it will have to do for at least a few months. I will try to take him out and let him roam around my patio or at the park at least a few times a week.

Lighting situation currently have the mini combo deep dome lamp fixture from zoo med with a 75 watt basking lamp bulb and 10.0 repti sun uvb bulb. I did have his enclosure by a window for a week and a half for some natural sunlight.

The correct lighting is explained in the threads. You've got a spot bulb and a CFL type bulb. Neither of those should be used over tortoises. The CFL ones sometimes burn their eyes, and that could be the cause of your issues.

Roaming loose is a recipe for disaster. You might be able to enclose and make the patio safe, but the park will never be safe. Outdoor housing is best for these guys when they are adults and when climate and weather allow. Where in CA are you? Different advice for Palm Springs vs. Redondo Beach.

 

[JoeyTortoise]

I’ll let @Tom comment on the lighting, but the thing about garden state Tortoise is, one they obviously pay him to promote their products, and two - he is very careful about the language he uses. If you go back and rewatch the video, you’ll notice, he’s very careful to say that those houses are only good for juvenile tortoises. He doesn’t dwell on the fact because again he is being paid to show the product, but he walks a fine line of indicating that these are OK for juvenile tortoises that are passed the stage of needing a closed chamber for humidity and are big enough for needing more space. Some would argue there is never that window

Unfortunately someones ability to provide the space a Tortoise needs doesn’t change what the Tortoise actually needs, so I definitely get it that you don’t have the space, it’s just doesn’t change the fact that the Tortoise needs more space to be healthy.

I totally get that they need a bigger enclosure. I didn’t before I bought the lil guy but now I know. I was a fool for not doing enough research before making this commitment but gave into my kids desire to get a tortoise immediately. Bad move.

I suppose I have two options. Find someone else who can take care of it better. Or figure out a way to make an outdoor enclosure on our patio. I live in Southern California so outdoor climate is good for the most part. Would have to build a hide for nights and a cover to keep out predators. Half the patio is covered by a roof and the it’s gated so may keep some predators from the sky out? Not sure if Racoons are a worry or cats? Other issue is I live near a freeway so it can get pretty dusty and dirty over time outside. Not sure if that is good for the tortoise. But winters I could keep him back indoors in a smaller enclosure?

 

[JoeyTortoise]

The correct lighting is explained in the threads. You've got a spot bulb and a CFL type bulb. Neither of those should be used over tortoises. The CFL ones sometimes burn their eyes, and that could be the cause of your issues.

Roaming loose is a recipe for disaster. You might be able to enclose and make the patio safe, but the park will never be safe. Outdoor housing is best for these guys when they are adults and when climate and weather allow. Where in CA are you? Different advice for Palm Springs vs. Redondo Beach.

In between the two. Glendale.

 

[Tom]

In between the two. Glendale.

That's where my wife grew up. I know it well.

 

[SinLA]

howdy neighbor, im in burbank. Change the bulbs first thing, soak him regularly, and you can work toward the space. My guy has both an outdoor and an indoor enclosure. I’d worry less about freeway (assuming you have an enclosure) and more about raccoons, rats, and coyotes.

what are you feeding him?

here is my outdoor enclosure, it’s bigger than you would need but you can see it’s pretty doable, and I also have and indoor enclosure that is several of those little ones strung together. You can always bring him in to an indoor enclosure at night to reduce the worry about predators. I bring mine in once overnight temps drop below 60.

 

[JoeyTortoise]

howdy neighbor, im in burbank. Change the bulbs first thing, soak him regularly, and you can work toward the space. My guy has both an outdoor and an indoor enclosure. I’d worry less about freeway (assuming you have an enclosure) and more about raccoons, rats, and coyotes.

what are you feeding him?

here is my outdoor enclosure, it’s bigger than you would need but you can see it’s pretty doable, and I also have and indoor enclosure that is several of those little ones strung together. You can always bring him in to an indoor enclosure at night to reduce the worry about predators. I bring mine in once overnight temps drop below 60.

Want to make sure I understand the lighting correctly? So the repti basking spot lamp bulb and mini compact fluorescent 10.9 uvb sold by zoo med are not good to use? It is better to use a regular 65 watt or so light bulb or flood light bulb for basking? And a tube for uvb? There are no acceptable uvb bulbs to use in a clamp lamp or dome lamp fixture?

Feeding has been tricky. I’ve tried romaine, collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens, endive, cucumber, squash, carrots and even clover and dandelions picked from a field. He’s only eaten collard greens, cucumber and squash since I got him and hasn’t eaten anything for a few days now.

Outdoors I’ve seen raccoons perched on our roof and above our patio before so I’d be most concerned about them but not coyotes since the patio has a large wooden gate surrounding it. I was thinking of setting up a kiddie pool we have but don’t use that is pretty large and square for the time being and making a cover with chicken wire to place on top.

 

[JoeyTortoise]

Never mind guys. I think the poor lil guy passed last night. I feel awful. Going to have to talk with the pet store. Lessons learned for sure.

Thanks for the tips and help. If we get another I will do it right next time. Anyone know where to buy Russian tortoises that are bred in SoCal?

 

[SinLA]

I'm so sorry! he did look pretty rough. First of all there are LOTS of rescue torts around. You can contact: https://www.tortoise.org/ to see what they have currently in need. This place also says they have Russians (https://mysulcatarescue.org/about) and you can also find some on CL just be wary of breeders pretending they are doing rescue.

There are also some breeders on this list you can contact if you search for them. I'm really sorry for your loss...

 

[JoeyTortoise]

I'm so sorry! he did look pretty rough. First of all there are LOTS of rescue torts around. You can contact: https://www.tortoise.org/ to see what they have currently in need. This place also says they have Russians (https://mysulcatarescue.org/about) and you can also find some on CL just be wary of breeders pretending they are doing rescue.

There are also some breeders on this list you can contact if you search for them. I'm really sorry for your loss...

Thank you for this info.

I spoke with and met the owner of the pet shop today. He was away for a couple weeks. Apparently at a trade show. He told me the tortoise was eating and in fine health as far as he could tell when he left. Not sure what happened while he was gone but two of his employees had raised concerns. One who sold it to me initially was concerned about his scales shedding but then looked it up and said that was normal. Another had said he noticed it wasn’t eating some lettuce and thought it had died at one point during the month they had it. The owner said he hadn’t seen any of that and his employees would normally come to him with their concerns which they didn’t, but maybe that is because he was out of town. He also told me that most of joy all Russian tortoises are captive bred and he believes his supplier doesn’t send them any that are wild caught. So to his understanding this tortoise should have been a captive bred one. I’m not too sure about that.

Anyways, he took the deceased tortoise and I’m sending over pictures I had of it and he is going to check with his supplier to see what may have happened. Then he is going to let me know what kind of tortoise they will be supplying in the coming week to see what kind of deal he can give me (doesn’t seem like a full refund will be coming which I expected). Deal or not though I’m not sure if I will go with what he can supply unless it’s young and super healthy and there is some kind of proof that it was captive bred.

 

[SinLA]

HIGHLY unlikely that was a well-raised CB tortoise. Just looking at the state of the shell and all those lines. This is a tortoise that struggled with its upkeep for years. Bottom line, i would not waste your time with this pet store, wherever it is and whatever they offer. Most pet stores are trash, even those that 'specialize' in reptiles, and you can't believe ANYTHING they say about where they got it. If you really want a baby, get directly from a breeder from this list, but I still advocate for a rescue - its much more satisfying