Russian not eating - new owner

[Julesfirebright]

Hey there! I’m a new tortoise owner in UK and 4 weeks ago inherited a Russian 5ish year old female from a friend who couldn’t cope. she had been kept on sand in vivarium with heat and UVB tube on timer and fed courgette and carrot and tortoise food. She also had a lot of roaming around, not very safely. Anyway since I’ve had her I’ve had soooo much conflicting advice on habitat, diet, substrate, lighting, just everything really. I was told to get her out of vivarium and onto tortoise table, which I did, and to change her lighting to 100w mercury vapour D3 basking lamp, which I did. Anyway I live in a cold cottage and it is winter. So I have made a kind of tent above the enclosure to keep her out of draughts. But I don’t think she’s warm enough and is basically sleeping in her hide most of the time but most worryingly has Not eaten anything more than couple of nibbles in 2 weeks. Please help! Everyone says about not giving store bought greens etc but she is not eating any of the wild food eg plantain and dandelion I’ve offered daily. I just don’t know what to do that is best for her. She is pretty active and alert when awake and I am bathing her. Her basking area is 30 degrees but I think I should put ceramic heater for rest of area - what wattage though? She is in 2 x 4 foot table.
I do plan on her going outside in the summer
thanks for any help and sorry for long email!

 

[TechnoCheese]

Hey there! I’m a new tortoise owner in UK and 4 weeks ago inherited a Russian 5ish year old female from a friend who couldn’t cope. she had been kept on sand in vivarium with heat and UVB tube on timer and fed courgette and carrot and tortoise food. She also had a lot of roaming around, not very safely. Anyway since I’ve had her I’ve had soooo much conflicting advice on habitat, diet, substrate, lighting, just everything really. I was told to get her out of vivarium and onto tortoise table, which I did, and to change her lighting to 100w mercury vapour D3 basking lamp, which I did. Anyway I live in a cold cottage and it is winter. So I have made a kind of tent above the enclosure to keep her out of draughts. But I don’t think she’s warm enough and is basically sleeping in her hide most of the time but most worryingly has Not eaten anything more than couple of nibbles in 2 weeks. Please help! Everyone says about not giving store bought greens etc but she is not eating any of the wild food eg plantain and dandelion I’ve offered daily. I just don’t know what to do that is best for her. She is pretty active and alert when awake and I am bathing her. Her basking area is 30 degrees but I think I should put ceramic heater for rest of area - what wattage though? She is in 2 x 4 foot table.
I do plan on her going outside in the summer
thanks for any help and sorry for long email!

Welcome to the forum!
Your basking area is too cool. It needs to be 35-38 C. This is likely the crux of your issue. The cool temps and the fact that it is winter is making her want to go into brumation (Hibernation).
Those MVB bulbs aren't great for UVB. Their UVB output can be pretty variable and they are very drying on tortoise shells. You're better off using a 10.0 tube florescent.
Your table is too small for an adult tortoise. Adult russians generally need an 8x4 foot enclosure, or at least close to that size. I would go no less than 24 square feet if you don't have a lot of space and the tortoise has a large outdoor enclosure.

Have a read through this. I know first hand that there is a lot of conflicting info on the web for tortoises, and it can be difficult to figure out which sources to trust. This forum is the best place out there for tortoise info, and the stuff here is constantly updating and improving.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

To get her to eat, chop up the stuff she will eat and the stuff she wont eat really finely, mist it with water so it sticks, and mix them together. You can try using a food processor. Slowly decrease the amount of what you don't want her eating until there's none left.

 

[Julesfirebright]

Welcome to the forum!
Your basking area is too cool. It needs to be 35-38 C. This is likely the crux of your issue. The cool temps and the fact that it is winter is making her want to go into brumation (Hibernation).
Those MVB bulbs aren't great for UVB. Their UVB output can be pretty variable and they are very drying on tortoise shells. You're better off using a 10.0 tube florescent.
Your table is too small for an adult tortoise. Adult russians generally need an 8x4 foot enclosure, or at least close to that size. I would go no less than 24 square feet if you don't have a lot of space and the tortoise has a large outdoor enclosure.

Have a read through this. I know first hand that there is a lot of conflicting info on the web for tortoises, and it can be difficult to figure out which sources to trust. This forum is the best place out there for tortoise info, and the stuff here is constantly updating and improving.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

To get her to eat, chop up the stuff she will eat and the stuff she wont eat really finely, mist it with water so it sticks, and mix them together. You can try using a food processor. Slowly decrease the amount of what you don't want her eating until there's none left.

Thanks so much for the reply And helpful advice.
I have mashed and mixed some food. The problem I have is that she isn’t eating anything at all. It’s so hard to find the mega tempting food. Is there anything that is like cat nip for Russian tortoise?

light and heat - she came with ProRes 100w basking spotlight and reptile system 38w fluorescent uvi3.6 output. Should I put these back in? I can get her a ceramic night heater too.

ok so I will build her a big enclosure for indoors - but only space is utility room which is even colder. should she have some kind of lid or like a giant box to keep temperature in? Are there any designs around?

sorry for many questions. what temperature does it need to be outside for her to live out?
thanks from me and Ivy! 😊

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
1. UVB lamp from Reptile Systems is probably a T8 tube - yes, it should work (mount it 30 cm high over the substrate). The only quirk here is that all UVB lamps have limited lifespan (from 6 to 12 months on average) - they still give visible light, but no useful UVB output and maybe this lamp is degraded.
2. ProRes lamp is an incandescent lamp and is better than MVB, however it's a spot light (has narrow beam, 65 degrees). This type of basking lamps cause pyramiding in young tortoises but since you have an adult Russian tortoise it's less a problem, but replace it with a flood type incandescent whenever possible.

The most common and simple way to make a covered enclosure is to use portable greenhouses. You can put it on top of the enclosure, put the whole enclosure inside of the greenhouse or make an enclosure out of greenhouse (some models have waterproof floor). There are also options to make a large box with sliding windows (rails and glass should be available in stores) or with hinged lids on top. I can't get the detailed design guides now, but you may take a look at Enclosures subsection of this forum and pinned messages there.

To heat the enclosure you can use either ceramic heat emitter or radiant heat panel for terrariums or chicken brooder panel. CHE is the easiest and cheapest option, but you may need a few low wattage ones for the large enclosure. Heat panels evenly spread the heat across larger area but are not very effective on mounting heights of 2 ft and more.

It's great, that you are asking questions. That's how we can help you to set the things right, avoid deadends and save some time and money. You and your tortoise benefit from it

 

[TammyJ]

In order not to feel overwhelmed and frustrated with all the changes you need to be making, try to get the most important thing - the temperatures and lights - right before getting to the diet, substrate and enclosure type and size.

 

[TammyJ]

Hello!
1. UVB lamp from Reptile Systems is probably a T8 tube - yes, it should work (mount it 30 cm high over the substrate). The only quirk here is that all UVB lamps have limited lifespan (from 6 to 12 months on average) - they still give visible light, but no useful UVB output and maybe this lamp is degraded.
2. ProRes lamp is an incandescent lamp and is better than MVB, however it's a spot light (has narrow beam, 65 degrees). This type of basking lamps cause pyramiding in young tortoises but since you have an adult Russian tortoise it's less a problem, but replace it with a flood type incandescent whenever possible.

The most common and simple way to make a covered enclosure is to use portable greenhouses. You can put it on top of the enclosure, put the whole enclosure inside of the greenhouse or make an enclosure out of greenhouse (some models have waterproof floor). There are also options to make a large box with sliding windows (rails and glass should be available in stores) or with hinged lids on top. I can't get the detailed design guides now, but you may take a look at Enclosures subsection of this forum and pinned messages there.

To heat the enclosure you can use either ceramic heat emitter or radiant heat panel for terrariums or chicken brooder panel. CHE is the easiest and cheapest option, but you may need a few low wattage ones for the large enclosure. Heat panels evenly spread the heat across larger area but are not very effective on mounting heights of 2 ft and more.

It's great, that you are asking questions. That's how we can help you to set the things right, avoid deadends and save some time and money. You and your tortoise benefit from it

You beat me again, Alex!

 

[Julesfirebright]

In order not to feel overwhelmed and frustrated with all the changes you need to be making, try to get the most important thing - the temperatures and lights - right before getting to the diet, substrate and enclosure type and size.

Thank you

Hello!
1. UVB lamp from Reptile Systems is probably a T8 tube - yes, it should work (mount it 30 cm high over the substrate). The only quirk here is that all UVB lamps have limited lifespan (from 6 to 12 months on average) - they still give visible light, but no useful UVB output and maybe this lamp is degraded.
2. ProRes lamp is an incandescent lamp and is better than MVB, however it's a spot light (has narrow beam, 65 degrees). This type of basking lamps cause pyramiding in young tortoises but since you have an adult Russian tortoise it's less a problem, but replace it with a flood type incandescent whenever possible.

The most common and simple way to make a covered enclosure is to use portable greenhouses. You can put it on top of the enclosure, put the whole enclosure inside of the greenhouse or make an enclosure out of greenhouse (some models have waterproof floor). There are also options to make a large box with sliding windows (rails and glass should be available in stores) or with hinged lids on top. I can't get the detailed design guides now, but you may take a look at Enclosures subsection of this forum and pinned messages there.

To heat the enclosure you can use either ceramic heat emitter or radiant heat panel for terrariums or chicken brooder panel. CHE is the easiest and cheapest option, but you may need a few low wattage ones for the large enclosure. Heat panels evenly spread the heat across larger area but are not very effective on mounting heights of 2 ft and more.

It's great, that you are asking questions. That's how we can help you to set the things right, avoid deadends and save some time and money. You and your tortoise benefit from it

great ideas thank you! 👍👍I’m a bit stuck on keeping her on the tortoise table and how to fix a uvb tube above it. Alternative is to put her back in vivarium again where everything is fitted. But she has had so many changes.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you

great ideas thank you! 👍👍I’m a bit stuck on keeping her on the tortoise table and how to fix a uvb tube above it. Alternative is to put her back in vivarium again where everything is fitted. But she has had so many changes.

What is table walls height? T8 lamps need to be mounted really low, their UV output is much less than of newer T5HO lamps. So you can use a wooden plank or (I feel embarassed suggesting this...) a broom handle to hold UVB tube fixture.. And just put the ends of the plank on the table walls.

Just in case: one week without UVB is not a tragedy and, perhaps, is better than ugly temporary solution

 

[Julesfirebright]

What is table walls height? T8 lamps need to be mounted really low, their UV output is much less than of newer T5HO lamps. So you can use a wooden plank or (I feel embarassed suggesting this...) a broom handle to hold UVB tube fixture.. And just put the ends of the plank on the table walls.

Just in case: one week without UVB is not a tragedy and, perhaps, is better than ugly temporary solution

 

[Julesfirebright]

Haha 😛 it’s ok it looks like a bad campsite at the moment anyway! But wall height is 22 cm so will that be ok or do I need to raise height of plank to 30 cm?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Haha 😛 it’s ok it looks like a bad campsite at the moment anyway! But wall height is 22 cm so will that be ok or do I need to raise height of plank to 30 cm?

And that's where we enter the "guess the UVI" game... This lamp, when it's new and is used with a reflector (mirror-like plate on the fixture), gives out required UV level at height of 28-30 cm. A new lamp without a reflector can be used at height of 20 cm.

We don't know how old it is and how quick UV level degrades. If you can ask about lamps' age - we can decide to keep or to dispose it.

Other option is just to get a new T8 UVB lamp (https://www.reptilecentre.com/products/reptile-systems-t8-uvb-lamp-ferguson-zone-3-12 or like this one: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/arcadia-d3-reptile-lamp-t8-12-uvb ).

 

[Julesfirebright]

And that's where we enter the "guess the UVI" game... This lamp, when it's new and is used with a reflector (mirror-like plate on the fixture), gives out required UV level at height of 28-30 cm. A new lamp without a reflector can be used at height of 20 cm.

We don't know how old it is and how quick UV level degrades. If you can ask about lamps' age - we can decide to keep or to dispose it.

Other option is just to get a new T8 UVB lamp (https://www.reptilecentre.com/products/reptile-systems-t8-uvb-lamp-ferguson-zone-3-12 or like this one: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/arcadia-d3-reptile-lamp-t8-12-uvb ).

Hi just heard it’s 2 months old so I can make a wooden holder for it without deflector. I’ve ordered flood 150w basking bulb too. Hoping this will improve her set up heat and light. Thanks for your help 👍👍
Substrate is my next quest. I have her on sand and soil mix. She was on sand. It’s a thorny issue I know but what can I get hold of in rural UK? 🎄

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi just heard it’s 2 months old so I can make a wooden holder for it without deflector. I’ve ordered flood 150w basking bulb too. Hoping this will improve her set up heat and light. Thanks for your help 👍👍
Substrate is my next quest. I have her on sand and soil mix. She was on sand. It’s a thorny issue I know but what can I get hold of in rural UK? 🎄

Maybe Swell can arrange a delivery to your place.. This is fine grade orchid bark, one of the best substrate options, sold significantly cheaper than Reptibark. (Link: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/swell-premium-orchid-bark-fine)
To make a thick substrate layer of 4-5 inches in a 3x6 ft enclosure you need about 5 20 liters bags. It should last for a year or even more. Also you can look for coco coir bricks in the gardening shops or plant nurseries. The downside of coir is that it's messy just like plain soil.

 

[Cathie G]

Thank you

great ideas thank you! 👍👍I’m a bit stuck on keeping her on the tortoise table and how to fix a uvb tube above it. Alternative is to put her back in vivarium again where everything is fitted. But she has had so many changes.

Hello and welcome 🤗 yes it is hard on them to go through so many changes at once. So go slowly and read until you get it. Russians are actually easy. I'm keeping mine around 80°f at night less and 40 to 50% humidity right now and he's not eating much. This is typical for this time of year for a Russian because of brumation. As you get understanding for daily care here on TFO do that. I get my little fella up and do regular care daily because I don't brumate. If you know a food your little one likes mix it up with good stuff like everyone else has said. I place my tortoise as far away from the food tile as possible after his care. Then he has to walk past the food tile to go beddy bye. He'll usually take a sniff and nibble. My Russian likes escarole and considers other things a treat too. You gotta be sneaky with a Russian 🙃 and be better at it 😀

 

[Julesfirebright]

Hello and welcome 🤗 yes it is hard on them to go through so many changes at once. So go slowly and read until you get it. Russians are actually easy. I'm keeping mine around 80°f at night less and 40 to 50% humidity right now and he's not eating much. This is typical for this time of year for a Russian because of brumation. As you get understanding for daily care here on TFO do that. I get my little fella up and do regular care daily because I don't brumate. If you know a food your little one likes mix it up with good stuff like everyone else has said. I place my tortoise as far away from the food tile as possible after his care. Then he has to walk past the food tile to go beddy bye. He'll usually take a sniff and nibble. My Russian likes escarole and considers other things a treat too. You gotta be sneaky with a Russian 🙃 and be better at it 😀

Aww thank you. I’ll be so glad when she is happy again. So nice to find a supportive community 😊

 

[Julesfirebright]

Maybe Swell can arrange a delivery to your place.. This is fine grade orchid bark, one of the best substrate options, sold significantly cheaper than Reptibark. (Link: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/swell-premium-orchid-bark-fine)
To make a thick substrate layer of 4-5 inches in a 3x6 ft enclosure you need about 5 20 liters bags. It should last for a year or even more. Also you can look for coco coir bricks in the gardening shops or plant nurseries. The downside of coir is that it's messy just like plain soil.

Hey thank you. 🙏 have ordered some orchid bark from swell reptiles - and they gave 10% discount for Xmas. Happy days 🎄

 

[Julesfirebright]

Welcome to the forum!
Your basking area is too cool. It needs to be 35-38 C. This is likely the crux of your issue. The cool temps and the fact that it is winter is making her want to go into brumation (Hibernation).
Those MVB bulbs aren't great for UVB. Their UVB output can be pretty variable and they are very drying on tortoise shells. You're better off using a 10.0 tube florescent.
Your table is too small for an adult tortoise. Adult russians generally need an 8x4 foot enclosure, or at least close to that size. I would go no less than 24 square feet if you don't have a lot of space and the tortoise has a large outdoor enclosure.

Have a read through this. I know first hand that there is a lot of conflicting info on the web for tortoises, and it can be difficult to figure out which sources to trust. This forum is the best place out there for tortoise info, and the stuff here is constantly updating and improving.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

To get her to eat, chop up the stuff she will eat and the stuff she wont eat really finely, mist it with water so it sticks, and mix them together. You can try using a food processor. Slowly decrease the amount of what you don't want her eating until there's none left.

I think making the mash is working! Couple of nibbles taken 😀

 

[TechnoCheese]

Yay!!!