Russian Hatchling

[MonaSydly]

Hey everybody!
I may be getting a Russian Hatchling! Unfortunately, I am a very worrysome person, so I have a TON of questions without any answers! That's where you come in!

What percentage of humidity is best for a very young hatchling? I know its higher than regular, but I haven't been able to find any exact answers.

How can I keep the humidity up to the best of my abilities?

What is the best substrate for them? I have heard a mix of coco coir and organic soil has worked well, but any other opinions would be greatly appreciated!

What are the best temperatures for them? Basking, and or cool end?

Are the same foods okay for them as with older adults? Such as kale, mustard greens, collard greens, romaine lettuce, mango, etc?!

How often should I soak them? Every day? Every other day?

Any answers would be appreciated! Thanks for you input!

 

[wellington]

Congrats. Can't really help you on your questions. However, hang on someone will be around soon.

 

[ascott]

http://russiantortoise.net/hatchling_care.htm

This is a cool resource (of course not the only one)..the only thing that I feel differently on is that I would leave out sand from the substrate all together....

 

[JoeImhof]

No mango. Russians shouldnt have fruit.

 

[CactusVinnie]

About humidity, make sure he has a slightly humid hide, and don't let the substrate to became dusty dry. Not moist, of course, it's an arid land species!
Substrate mix: as you said, and you can mix regular garden soil, sand, coco etc.
"kale, mustard greens, collard greens, romaine lettuce, mango"- these are all wrong, except lettuce, wich is only poor, but not nocive. Dandelion, cichory, plantain, clover, malva, hibiscus, mullberry, grapewine leaves etc. Lots of infos on the forum and net for tortoise food- just make sure you ask again here, to be confirmed, some advices on various sites are utterly idiotic. Also you can check parks or fields for lots of weeds, but be sure the area is not sprayed with pesticides. Where are you located? add that to your profile.
Even if no soaking, the humid hide will do the job. But once a week is not bad for a baby Russian.

 

[MonaSydly]

About humidity, make sure he has a slightly humid hide, and don't let the substrate to became dusty dry. Not moist, of course, it's an arid land species!
Substrate mix: as you said, and you can mix regular garden soil, sand, coco etc.
"kale, mustard greens, collard greens, romaine lettuce, mango"- these are all wrong, except lettuce, wich is only poor, but not nocive. Dandelion, cichory, plantain, clover, malva, hibiscus, mullberry, grapewine leaves etc. Lots of infos on the forum and net for tortoise food- just make sure you ask again here, to be confirmed, some advices on various sites are utterly idiotic. Also you can check parks or fields for lots of weeds, but be sure the area is not sprayed with pesticides. Where are you located? add that to your profile.
Even if no soaking, the humid hide will do the job. But once a week is not bad for a baby Russian.

Ok, I can manage those foods, and what's the best way to make a hide humid? I've read someone used a sponge, but is that safe for the tort? Or should I just spray the substrate under the hide?

 

[CactusVinnie]

Right, just spraying the substrate will do. BTW, when I said "mulberry", I was referring at the leaves- it will be generally about leaves, and sometimes flowers- ex. Hibiscus; they eat both, but the leaves are the most useful in their diet.
Of course, an accidental piece of fruit will not harm, but not an entire fruit; for instance, I have my Russians pen near a peach-tree, and I well not let the branches to reach the pen, since they will gorge themselves on fallen fruits in about 2 years. This is not good at all, so I will move the pen 2 m away. I throwed a bird-pierced peach to them, after making more small pieces (size of a peanut in husk), and they came like sharks. Weird how they can eat lots of fruits, since a serious imballance of the gut-flora will follow right the next day, not long-term... no wonder then how many are deformed, since they are greedy and eat with voracity even bad food items...

 

[MonaSydly]

Right, just spraying the substrate will do. BTW, when I said "mulberry", I was referring at the leaves- it will be generally about leaves, and sometimes flowers- ex. Hibiscus; they eat both, but the leaves are the most useful in their diet.
Of course, an accidental piece of fruit will not harm, but not an entire fruit; for instance, I have my Russians pen near a peach-tree, and I well not let the branches to reach the pen, since they will gorge themselves on fallen fruits in about 2 years. This is not good at all, so I will move the pen 2 m away. I throwed a bird-pierced peach to them, after making more small pieces (size of a peanut in husk), and they came like sharks. Weird how they can eat lots of fruits, since a serious imballance of the gut-flora will follow right the next day, not long-term... no wonder then how many are deformed, since they are greedy and eat with voracity even bad food items...

Oh yes, I have heard not to feed the actually berries so no worries there and so it is okay if I feed it an occasional piece of fruit? Like maybe once a week? Or even more occasional? And thank you for being so nice and answering my questions. Haha I love how you describe your Russians also

 

[stinax182]

I'd soak a baby every day in warm water for around 20 mins. maybe more often if you never see him drink. for a humid hide i have a plastic shoe box with peat moss and a damp layer of sphagnum moss on top (it will hold moisture better) my substrate is a mix of coco fiber and peat moss....i found the top soil would clump up a lot. Russians LOVE to dig and bury themselves so make sure it's deep enough. they also like to climb (or at least mine) so put some small rocks in the enclosure (not big enough that he'll flip over, but just a change in landscape) and Russians do well on a lot of grocery store bought items (kale, collard greens, mustard greens, broad leaf lettuces, NO ICE BERG, escole, endive, argula) but i like to get a lot of their diet from my backyard (seasons permitting) like clover, plantains, and mulberry leaves.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Stinax,
Kale, collard, mustard, arugula are accepted only maybe about 5% of tortoise diet, for variety, but not staples, in no way. These are very valuable for us humans. Escarole & endive are cichory species, it's ok, but usually from markets, and no match for a garden-grown one, or a wild cichory. Cichory CAN be a staple food, even about 50%; it's also good for us.

 

[stinax182]

i can never seem to find chicory at my grocery store. and i wrote this response on a cell phone quickly and you're right, i did not mention that if possible, home grown food is the best! i also grow some a Arugula and clover in a planter box in their room and enclosure. but it's winter here so i obviously can't grow everything i feed him i was more saying they're a species you can get good a lot of food for at a grocery store. my leopard, on the other hand, doesn't eat a main diet of broadleaf greens (which are peoples favorite too) so i grow a lot more of his food.

 

[Bobo's Dad]

Do you have any pictures of your hatchling? Pic's of his enclosure?

 

[MonaSydly]

Do you have any pictures of your hatchling? Pic's of his enclosure?

Sadly, I dont have one yet, just getting prepared!

 

[JoeImhof]

Stinax,
Kale, collard, mustard, arugula are accepted only maybe about 5% of tortoise diet, for variety, but not staples, in no way. These are very valuable for us humans. Escarole & endive are cichory species, it's ok, but usually from markets, and no match for a garden-grown one, or a wild cichory. Cichory CAN be a staple food, even about 50%; it's also good for us.

I do not agree with the above about kale, collards, mustard. See Russiantortoise.org. Kale and collards are good staples, per Joe H there, and I've been giving them for years. My torts are healthy, happy, breeding, shells hard as rocks, with Kale and collards as #1 and #2 store bought foods in their diet.
No subsitute for tons of weeds in the summertime though!

 

[stinax182]

I'd say if you get the "spring mix" (which includes a wide variety) and every week buy a fresh bunch of weeds or broad leaf plants like escarole, chicory, Arugula, dandelions, clover, romaine, green and other fancy lettuces, water cress, endive, ect. that your tortoise will be very happy i believe spring mix is a good staple when mixed with a different plant each week. the only fruit i feed them is cactus fruit as a treat, maybe twice a month when its in season. flowers of the right plants are also a good treat if you know what to look for. some people just don't have a green thumb and that's why Russians are so popular versus say, African tortoises, because they eat the same plants humans eat, basically. weeds, grasses and hay are harder to maintain and come by for me in new England in October..especially in the quantities needed for these lawn mowers! hope you like my advice

 

[CactusVinnie]

Joe,
do not let you induced in error that quick. I know the French article and Joe Heinen site, of course, but...

To save time until your next visit and reply, when I wanted to ask some details, I checked your posts, and found edificant infos.

Be careful: the adults you received are obviously WC, and even if there are some Brassicaceae in their wild diet, they are not staples. Staple is the poisonous Ceratocephalus, a Buttercup. These adults did not grow with the diet you give now, so, you cannot jump to conclusion that Brassicas as staple are good.
Maybe not much oxalates in these market greens, since they are not grown wild, "hard", but watery and "soft", as they usually are for market?
I said about 5% to be on the safe side, not excluding them totally- personally, I gave very rarely some wild rape leaves, but it will be under 1%.

And when you put together "breeding" and "for years", that can generate error in other's conclusions: you may have these for years (again, it's irrelevant, being WC's!), but your only babies are from this year. First clutch not succesful (!). Next ones: I found the number of eggs quite low for such nice females, and also the yolksack problem, even in a single baby, it's way too much for such a small lot of eggs- I also had one, but in 39 eggs (Ibera).
My experience is only from 2 breeding seasons, with good results. My Ibera adults are also WC - not by me, not bought from poachers, but convincing some people that just picked them from the wild to not torture them anymore... and with a diet practically without any Brassica sp., they breed fine.
Not much dandelions too, but cichory- it seems of a better consistence and nutritious, but I want to help in my yard a good population of dandies to appear.
I also do not have too much Leguminosae, maybe 2% in their diet?? Still, my beasts produced eggs and the babies grow nicely. I want to change that too, sowing some clover.

I don't know for sure if too much Brassicas in your diet is the cause, but why not shift on a staple of totally safe species, and let them at max. 10%, or better, at 5%? Try this, see the results. I don't know how difficult is for you, but it is worthy.

 

[JoeImhof]

Vin,

We might be getting a bit off topic here, but, just a couple quick points. 2-3 eggs per clutch I do not think is less than average for Russians. I think thats common. They can have up to 5 or so, but many many people report 2-3 per clutch.
First ever clutch of a female being not fertile, thats not uncommon either, see plenty of threads on such.
Out of last 5 eggs, 4 were fertile and hatched. 1 passed away. I dont think thats a bad record at all. One can hope for everything to always be perfect, but I dont think thats any kind of terrible record.

As for WC, they sure are. But if fed a bad diet, WC can still get soft shells, sick, etc.
Anyway, Joe Heinen says Kale good, and he is as much of an expert as just about anyone.

NO ONE can grow the exact food found in Russia, Kazakstan etc, I doubt anyone even knows much of what actually does grow there.

There is a real debate about Kale on this board and elsewhere, but clearly some experts like Joe H recommend it, and I;ve been feeding almost 5 years, things seem well.

Lastly, I dont feel good about your post criticizing me and my husbandry, dont think it was very nice at all, so I'm going to politely block you. Good luck to you in the future

 

[CactusVinnie]

Blocking without being insulted- direct or indirect- is not polite at all. THAT is not nice. In the best case, you misunderstood my posts!! I just expressed my doubts and suppositions and discussing that with you, what's that bad in it????? I don't see where the attack is, so please reconsider with calm.
Not being sure what means "blocked", never blocked someone- you will not see my posts anymore, more likely, or what else?- I will try anyway to tell you that there is a quite good survey on their diet in Uzbekistan right on Joe Heinen site- http://russiantortoise.net/diet_research.htm . The link does not work anymore, but I searched for the title, and found it. I read it from almost 2 years ago, saved in archive. Yes, Brassicas too, identified or not! Here it is:

http://www.cebc.cnrs.fr/publipdf/2003/LEco26.PDF

You could just say that even wit lots of Brassicas in the diet, your/others results are not only short-termed, and make your point. If convinced, I would reconsider that group in my tortoise diet. Keep in mind that effects of oxalates and goitrogens in them are not unknown, and usually not recommended as staples- so my doubt was based on something. If not that acute side effects, I want to know from long-term positive experiences, and that is the idea of my "attacks" or "criticism". And criticism/doubt based on something, without excluding your arguments, is not a bad thing. It is called polite debate, IMHO... Good luck to you too, whatever byou decide.