Project Impressa

[EricIvins]

This is an absolute dream project for me. One that will take some grit, blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. I know what is involved, I know what the loss rate is, but I will see this through untill I have a solid group producing captive bred offspring. A Dinosaur among Tortoises - Manouria Impressa

 

[Benjamin]

Best of luck! How many are you starting with?

 

[Weldd]

Good luck! What antibiotic/antiparasitic regimen are you planning?

 

[ayS]

Good luck! Keep us posted in how things are going.

 

[AustinASU]

On kingsnake they just had some captive bred babies for sale

 

[EricIvins]

Best of luck! How many are you starting with?

I have a small group now, along with 20 more that should be here in the next week or two.......

Good luck! What antibiotic/antiparasitic regimen are you planning?

None......Doing so would more than likely send most into Renal failure.......Right now they are getting Pro-Biotics to help buld back the good gut Flora to move things along. Some are eating on their own, the others that hold out will be tubed depending on the animals condition. I check on them twice a day to assess what needs to be done for each individual animal........

 

[Weldd]

Hmmm...I think that that's contrary to what some of the people working with this group of imports is doing. I'll be interested to see how your success differs from theirs.

I wouldn't think that metronidazole +/- panacur or pyrantel would necessarily tip them into renal failure provided they were hydrated at the same time.

Anyway, good luck and post updates!

 

[Julius25]

Good luck for this project i wish you succes

 

[EricIvins]

Hmmm...I think that that's contrary to what some of the people working with this group of imports is doing. I'll be interested to see how your success differs from theirs.

I wouldn't think that metronidazole +/- panacur or pyrantel would necessarily tip them into renal failure provided they were hydrated at the same time.

Anyway, good luck and post updates!

That is the problem - They are chronically dehyrated. All Impressa are when they come in. Shooting them up with Anti-Biotics and De-Wormers will only serve to thrown them in Renal failure at this point, even with Ringers or IV Fluids. Getting them properly hydrated and functioning is a minimum 6-10 week process. The Pro-Biotics not only help the Gut Flora, but the immune system also.

They are being kept cool, humid, dark, and stress free. That is what they need to go through the acclimation process. Medication is only an after thought once they start to recover both physically and mentally.......


Just another FYI though - Most of the animals that have been brought in over the past two months are dead. I know of only two that are still kicking. My approach is completely different for a reason. Mainly because I know what most people do when they do get them in, and so far it has not worked. I'm hoping the more hands off approach will work better. This has been my experience when acclimating other fragile Indo species.......

 

[Tom]

Thank you Eric. Watching and learning with great interest.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Great! Hope for the best, sounds like you have the determination!

 

[DrewsLife727]

Best wishes! Hope your dream comes true

-Drew

 

[Jacqui]

I hope you much success. Your approach seems much like mine with hingebacks and for the same reasons. Will be interesting to watch the out come for you.

 

[Weldd]

I'm totally cheering for your plan with these. I'm not a fan of the "Shotgun" approach in terms of treatment. I think that the wait and watch method here could be the best method.

What are they eating?

Hmmm...I think that that's contrary to what some of the people working with this group of imports is doing. I'll be interested to see how your success differs from theirs.

I wouldn't think that metronidazole +/- panacur or pyrantel would necessarily tip them into renal failure provided they were hydrated at the same time.

Anyway, good luck and post updates!

That is the problem - They are chronically dehyrated. All Impressa are when they come in. Shooting them up with Anti-Biotics and De-Wormers will only serve to thrown them in Renal failure at this point, even with Ringers or IV Fluids. Getting them properly hydrated and functioning is a minimum 6-10 week process. The Pro-Biotics not only help the Gut Flora, but the immune system also.

They are being kept cool, humid, dark, and stress free. That is what they need to go through the acclimation process. Medication is only an after thought once they start to recover both physically and mentally.......


Just another FYI though - Most of the animals that have been brought in over the past two months are dead. I know of only two that are still kicking. My approach is completely different for a reason. Mainly because I know what most people do when they do get them in, and so far it has not worked. I'm hoping the more hands off approach will work better. This has been my experience when acclimating other fragile Indo species.......

 

[EricIvins]

I'm totally cheering for your plan with these. I'm not a fan of the "Shotgun" approach in terms of treatment. I think that the wait and watch method here could be the best method.

What are they eating?

Some have touched Papaya and Strawberries. Mushrooms here and there, but they don't seem to key in on them like the animals from Thailand. That could change though. One Male has eaten everything I've given him. I'm trying Bamboo shoots and a few other Asian things tommorrow. I think the big thing here is figuring out what each individual prefers and then trying to get them switched to new things down the road.

This is a day by day project. I have read all the literature I can find, but this is one hell of a learning curve since most of the literature is either vague, contradictory, or outdated. Nothing consistent other than the fact that they are Forest Tortoises. These guys almost mirror acclimating Leucocephalon Yuwonoi though, so I have my experience along with a few others to go by. Either way, I will be successful. Even if I'm able to acclimate a few animals and lose a bunch. I already have a pretty cool shell collection, but I plan on keeping these guys out of it as much as I can.......

 

[Len B]

I wish you all the luck in the world, hope they work out for you.The one I have has favorite foods, they are, baked sweet potato,boiled carrots,hard boiled egg (both parts), jack in the pulpit,which have all died back for the year,several types of colocasia and alocasia, But I think it's all time favorites are pothos and mushrooms, any type of mushroom,wild or store bought.I planted bamboo in the enclosure but not sure if it is eating the new growth, but I haven't gotten any new growth above ground all summer,maybe the reason is, it is being eaten by the tort,other things it eats are, frozen mixed vegetables just thawed out not boiled, pumpkin, slugs and snails, banana, grapes (prefers the green),has eaten mazuri,, and just tried boiled chicken hearts cut into small pieces and it ate some.I know I haven't mentioned everything but these are a few things you can try. I believe the alocasia, colocasia,philadendron,pothos and mushrooms are a very important part of their diet. I feed all these things to all my manouria and haven't had a problem with any of them since 1996.--are these from parks ?

 

[kanalomele]

All the best to you in this new adventure. You certainly have some gorgeous specimens to get you started.

 

[tortadise]

I wish you all the luck in the world, hope they work out for you.The one I have has favorite foods, they are, baked sweet potato,boiled carrots,hard boiled egg (both parts), jack in the pulpit,which have all died back for the year,several types of colocasia and alocasia, But I think it's all time favorites are pothos and mushrooms, any type of mushroom,wild or store bought.I planted bamboo in the enclosure but not sure if it is eating the new growth, but I haven't gotten any new growth above ground all summer,maybe the reason is, it is being eaten by the tort,other things it eats are, frozen mixed vegetables just thawed out not boiled, pumpkin, slugs and snails, banana, grapes (prefers the green),has eaten mazuri,, and just tried boiled chicken hearts cut into small pieces and it ate some.I know I haven't mentioned everything but these are a few things you can try. I believe the alocasia, colocasia,philadendron,pothos and mushrooms are a very important part of their diet. I feed all these things to all my manouria and haven't had a problem with any of them since 1996.--are these from parks ?

This is very similar to my success with impressa. I have found that the oyster muchrooms are a favorite of mine. They do however not like the fresh mushrooms they like them kinda slimmy. I have to say pothos is a crucial for imports I have to say. They love to hide in it as well as mutilate the plant. Good luck with these guys just leave them alone and keep them cool and humid. Try a huge enclosure if you can with alot of leaves, pine needles, and loos moss. They love to semi burrow and keep "hidden" from anything seeing them.

 

[wildak]

I've been working with these guys for a while now and that is the way to go, buy 20 and hope to have 2.2 in a year. Most of the deaths are in the first week usually within the first 36 hours. I have 2.2 from the April shipment. It came in as a 4.4 one dead on arrival and 3 more within 36 hours. The main issue that did them in was Delta froze the box during shipping. I can't believe any of them lived seeing how it took an hour before I could tell if any were alive.I had the state pathologist do a necropsy on them and found that 2 would have died anyways and one was healthy and froze solid.

I have gotton 25 more since then and lost 4 more, One being a bright golden male that was stunning and nearly removed my thumb one day he was so active, lively and a quite nasty and 2 days later dead. I was on pain killers at the time so the blood running down his throat for 3 minutes before I pryed him off may have over dosed him.

They all carry an Amoeba and worms and flagillates that they live with in the wild but as you know impressa stress out in a bad way which causes the parasites to run a muc. The Ameoba TOTALY destroys the liver and kidneys while turning their insides into a liquid goo. The one small female (6 or 7 inches) was full of eggs, so I feel she must have been in fairly good shape not that long ago to be producing eggs which would mean this happened really fast.

I agree that they need to be hydrated big time and just soaking them in water doesn't mean they are drinking it, you need to see them drinking. I have had many that I had to force feed water until they were able to do so on their own as they would just sit in it and not drink. It's amazing how much water they can drink when they start drinking. Weigh them before and after and a 2kg tortoise will will drink 1/2kg of water and the next day they almost lost all the water weight. They have thin soft skin that doesn't hold moisture like a Sulcata, They dry out like a sponge in the sun even if you have them in the shade.

The problem is once you notice them going down hill it's usually too late, they often die within a couple days. It's different than a tortoise you raised that walks up to you to eat, these guys hide when they're healthy or sick so taking weights twice a week may help and it's still difficult to tell if they are sick or not seeing how 80% of them don't eat on their own for 6 months or more. I've seen people take the approach that if they're eating they are ok, well now they have changed their way of thinking and start treatment after hydration and have good results. TSA, Zoo Atlanta and others have come up with a protocol that works very well. I will follow their lead any day with the results they have.

Some seem to have different tastes, one will eat only oyster mushrooms while others may only eat tomatoe, cantalope, yams, bokchoy, pumpkin. I toss Chia and alpha seeds in their bark which sprouts quickly and they like it a lot. They really seem to like new sprouts of almost anything. If you have cb impressa use their fecals instead of any pro biotics as stomach flora is usually species specific as shown in recent studies.

Also if possible put them outside. You will see a huge improvement as they are the most intelligent tortoise I have seen and are very aware of their surroundings. The minute they get outside they start acting like they should and foraging. I just have issues with bears, eagles and several other little nasty tortoise eaters to deal with by cameras, heavy fencing, nets, electric and a big bore rifle.

Good luck, we need 40-50 breeding wc pairs in the US and the studbook showed 6.9 founders in April, not counting Tremper, Novack and Eldridge which adds 7.2 I think.

 

[harris]

Best. Thread. Ever.