Poorly Russian; conjunctivitis

zovick

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Hi everyone.
I am new here but have been coming to these forums for info since I got my Horsefield, Tucker last April.
From April until 2 weeks ago I had a happy, healthy and cheeky little tortoise. About 2 weeks ago I noticed he didn't come running for breakfast as usual. On further investigation I realised he couldn't open his eyes and both nostrils had seemingly disappeared.
We went to the vets and she gave me some saline and some eye drops to use 3 times a day and asked me to take him back after a week. I cleaned his eyes 3 times a day as requested, and then put his drops in about 20-30 mins later. A week passed and things were pretty much the same. However, typically, when we got there the second time he had opened his eyes. She said she saw a definite improvement. His weight had gone down within a week from 107g to 105g as he hasn't eaten since first vet visit. She gave him a tube feed on tuesday at our second visit, just to give him something because he is so small. He tolerated it and kept it down. She said to continue with cleaning and drops and back in another week (due back Tuesday). She also suggested Reptoboost to put in water when I soak him which I've been doing daily. His eyes haven't opened like they were at the vets... when I get him out to clean and do his drops he opens them slightly after 5 mins or so. But as soon as I put him down he goes straight back to sleep. He isn't active, still won't eat. I have temporarily removed substrate from his viv to avoid it sticking to his eyes. Temp in viv is between 22-26°c with basking spot of about 30°. Humidity is generally 45-55. He has a UV tube light (exo terra brand) and an infrared basking spot light (also exo terra). Both recently changed (after his eye problem started, in case that was the problem). Any ideas as to what else I could be trying as it seems like he isn't really improving?
Vet said if no better by tuesday she may have to teach me how to give him injections of antibiotics🤷‍♀️
I feel like such a bad tortoise mum right now😔😔 any advice appreciated.
Tuckers Mum x
I think that your temperatures are too low, especially for a tortoise that is not acting very well. I would recommend keeping the entire vivarium at a minimum of 30 C (85F) and the basking area could be as high as 35 C. (95F)
 

Tom

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Thanks so much. Will get some ordered. Would you recommend using this on its own or with anything else?
Hello and welcome TuckersMum. We see this sort of thing all the time, and we do our best to help. Someone like you goes and gets a tortoise, you do research and ask questions, and you buy all the stuff the pet shop told you to get, and then things don't go so well, and you end up here on our forum looking for answers. Its clear that you had nothing but the best of intentions, and tried very hard to make a great home for your tortoise, but there is just so much bad info out in the world...

Terrible circumstances brought you here, but we are glad you are here because now will get get the right info and can ask lots questions until you understand why one thing is wrong and the other is right. You no longer have to stumble around in the dark and try to figure it all out on your own. Other people who have already been down that road can help you figure it all out much quicker.

In short, you were sold the wrong lighting and wrong substrate for starters. Your temperatures were also too cool.

This is the thread that Alex left for you above. I'll leave it here again for convenience. If you haven't read it yet, take a few minutes and check it out. I recommend reading it at least twice to take it all in. This thread will explain why there is so much contradictory and wrong info and what is right.

This thread will tell you specifically how to best care for your species:

I agree that tube feeding is not the way to go in this case, and I wouldn't do antibiotics yet either. Fix the husbandry issues and the problem should correct itself. The eye issue is likely due to the red bulb or due to the sandy dry substrate. Sand should never be used as tortoise substrate. The drops are fine to use and might help, but get rid of the dust by using the correct substrate and keeping it lightly damp, and get the correct lighting in there.

Questions are welcome! :)
 

TuckersMum

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Hello and welcome TuckersMum. We see this sort of thing all the time, and we do our best to help. Someone like you goes and gets a tortoise, you do research and ask questions, and you buy all the stuff the pet shop told you to get, and then things don't go so well, and you end up here on our forum looking for answers. Its clear that you had nothing but the best of intentions, and tried very hard to make a great home for your tortoise, but there is just so much bad info out in the world...

Terrible circumstances brought you here, but we are glad you are here because now will get get the right info and can ask lots questions until you understand why one thing is wrong and the other is right. You no longer have to stumble around in the dark and try to figure it all out on your own. Other people who have already been down that road can help you figure it all out much quicker.

In short, you were sold the wrong lighting and wrong substrate for starters. Your temperatures were also too cool.

This is the thread that Alex left for you above. I'll leave it here again for convenience. If you haven't read it yet, take a few minutes and check it out. I recommend reading it at least twice to take it all in. This thread will explain why there is so much contradictory and wrong info and what is right.

This thread will tell you specifically how to best care for your species:

I agree that tube feeding is not the way to go in this case, and I wouldn't do antibiotics yet either. Fix the husbandry issues and the problem should correct itself. The eye issue is likely due to the red bulb or due to the sandy dry substrate. Sand should never be used as tortoise substrate. The drops are fine to use and might help, but get rid of the dust by using the correct substrate and keeping it lightly damp, and get the correct lighting in there.

Questions are welcome! :)
Thanks so much I really appreciate you all replying and being so helpful and understanding. I have ordered substrate (fine orchid bark) and basking floodlight from swell reptiles as suggested. Do I just use the orchid bark substrate or do I need anything else in there with that?
Honestly, I know none of you think this, but I really feel so bad that I've out him through all this. It's definitely helped us bond though. I'll never forgive myself if he doesn't bounce back from this😔
 

Tom

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Thanks so much I really appreciate you all replying and being so helpful and understanding. I have ordered substrate (fine orchid bark) and basking floodlight from swell reptiles as suggested. Do I just use the orchid bark substrate or do I need anything else in there with that?
Honestly, I know none of you think this, but I really feel so bad that I've out him through all this. It's definitely helped us bond though. I'll never forgive myself if he doesn't bounce back from this😔
No need to mix in anything with the orchid bark. Use a 3-4 inch layer and keep the bottom layers more damp by dumping in water periodically. How much water and how often varies with each enclosure, and seasonally even in the same enclosure. You have to go by feel.

You put in great effort and expense to properly care for this tortoise. It is not your fault that the pet store gave you the wrong info. You should hold your head high and sleep with a clear conscience. We all hope he recovers, and you two have many happy years together. That is the goal.
 

Cathie G

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Either straw or dried grass pellets. Thanks so much. As soon as I know what to get I'm going out to find it. Feel like the worst tortoise mum ever 😔
Hello and please don't feel that way. There's a lot of bad information out there even from vets and other so called experts. It's that way with other exotic pets also. And even domestic animals. It's really hard to wade through it all and come to a good balance. The fact you are trying so hard tells me you'll succeed.🤗
 

TuckersMum

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Ok so...
substrate✔️
New basking bulb on its way✔️

I have a question about the lighting now. Currently have tube bulb (exo terra uvb) but there is no reflector - do we need one and could that also be affecting/hurting his eyes?
Thanks again everyone so so glad I posted on here you have helped so much x
 

Sarah2020

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Thanks so much. Will get some ordered. Would you recommend using this on its own or with anything else?
100% on its own. Clear put the old, disenfect the enc surfaces and then add this to provide a generous depth. The place the hide, low rocks etc around the enclosure.
As mentioned check heat, light, diet etc.. to ensure correct set up.
 

Tom

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I have a question about the lighting now. Currently have tube bulb (exo terra uvb) but there is no reflector - do we need one and could that also be affecting/hurting his eyes?
A tube type bulb at that height shouldn't be hurting his eyes. A bigger concern is that he might not be getting enough UV. The only way to know is to put a meter under it in your enclosure with your bulb. The only one that works currently is the Solarmeter 6.5.
 

TuckersMum

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A tube type bulb at that height shouldn't be hurting his eyes. A bigger concern is that he might not be getting enough UV. The only way to know is to put a meter under it in your enclosure with your bulb. The only one that works currently is the Solarmeter 6.5.
Are all the other solar meters not accurate? Solarmeter v expensive so was going to get a cheaper one meantime until I can afford that one but doesn't seem worth doing if they aren't accurate?

I'd be lost without you lot. Have learned so much from you all in this past few days and instead of googling my Tort questions I know to come straight here now to find the RIGHT advice👏
 

Tom

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Are all the other solar meters not accurate? Solarmeter v expensive so was going to get a cheaper one meantime until I can afford that one but doesn't seem worth doing if they aren't accurate?

I'd be lost without you lot. Have learned so much from you all in this past few days and instead of googling my Tort questions I know to come straight here now to find the RIGHT advice👏
I know of no other meter that measures the correct spectrum of UVB that is needed by our reptiles. Everyone wishes there was a cheaper alternative, but as you said, it does no one any good if it isn't accurate.
 

TuckersMum

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I know of no other meter that measures the correct spectrum of UVB that is needed by our reptiles. Everyone wishes there was a cheaper alternative, but as you said, it does no one any good if it isn't accurate.
Thanks Tom. I won't waste my money then, may as well put it to one side towards the solarmeter 6.5 fund👏👏
 

TuckersMum

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Tuckers new substrate (fine orchid bark) arrived today (thanks @Sarah2020 for the suggestion) along with his new Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight (thanks to @Alex and the Redfoot for your advice).
The humidity has gone from 40-50 to now being between 70-80 but am I right in thinking this is not a bad thing for a baby?
He has not stopped exploring and walking around since I put the orchid substrate in and replaced the bulb. He is much more alert already and his right eye is opening more. His left eye is also improving.
My next project shall be to make him a decent hide... what kind of moss do you suggest for one?

Thanks so so much again and again to everyone who has helped me get to this point. It's certainly been an overwhelming week, relearning everything about Russians, but I am so grateful I found you and asked you for help🩵🩵
 

Sarah2020

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Hi great news and good progress. Re hide just get an arch shape tunnel. No moss as not recommended. They eat it and can not digest it.
There are wooden ones but I find they go mouldy so go for something like this
You want one they can go in, turn and look out. If adventurous it may climb the top so avoid too high.

Alternatively visit a fish aquarium shop to see if they have something suitable.
 
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TammyJ

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Being a tortoise in human form, let me say I don't like "Tunnel" "hides" or any hide with two huge openings. If I want to feel secure I want a dark, warm place with a small opening that I can fit through without scraping my shell, but no bigger, and the hide must be large enough to easily turn around in, and not too tall. I want to see you, but you can't really see me so much.
 

TuckersMum

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Being a tortoise in human form, let me say I don't like "Tunnel" "hides" or any hide with two huge openings. If I want to feel secure I want a dark, warm place with a small opening that I can fit through without scraping my shell, but no bigger, and the hide must be large enough to easily turn around in, and not too tall. I want to see you, but you can't really see me so much.
Excellent thanks Tammy❤️
I use a small plastic tub for a hide. Just made a cut out for the entrance on the side. And yes, no moss.
Will do. No moss, got it👏👏 thanks 🥰
 

_The_Beast_

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I used one of those bending wood 'bridge' type things for a hide that you can bend. I bend it into an arch and bury half of it so that only the front half is open. There's substrate on all sides except the entrance and my russian loves it. It's dark, cozy, and super humid. It also adds a small 'hill' that makes the terrain more interesting. I regularly check the ends to make sure the bendy metal isn't causing a safety risk. Also, since it's wood, I'll need to replace it eventually. I don't have a picture, but you can see a video of it here (instagram):
I also have another humid hide that is half an empty coconut shell that's half buried in the substrate (this will only work while my russian is small and is not big enough for an adult). Mostly, WL uses the wood bridge one for night sleeps and the coconut for day naps.

ETA: Ah! I did not know it would insert the whole instagram post that way! Sorry folks ><
 

Cathie G

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Tuckers new substrate (fine orchid bark) arrived today (thanks @Sarah2020 for the suggestion) along with his new Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight (thanks to @Alex and the Redfoot for your advice).
The humidity has gone from 40-50 to now being between 70-80 but am I right in thinking this is not a bad thing for a baby?
He has not stopped exploring and walking around since I put the orchid substrate in and replaced the bulb. He is much more alert already and his right eye is opening more. His left eye is also improving.
My next project shall be to make him a decent hide... what kind of moss do you suggest for one?

Thanks so so much again and again to everyone who has helped me get to this point. It's certainly been an overwhelming week, relearning everything about Russians, but I am so grateful I found you and asked you for help🩵🩵
I can't give exact advice on baby Russians humidity levels except to say that's usually correct for babies. They need a higher humidity level so their shell can grow. My little guy was around 4 or 5 years when I got him and their humidity needs are much lower . More like ours.
 

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