Poorly Russian; conjunctivitis

[TuckersMum]

Hi everyone.
I am new here but have been coming to these forums for info since I got my Horsefield, Tucker last April.
From April until 2 weeks ago I had a happy, healthy and cheeky little tortoise. About 2 weeks ago I noticed he didn't come running for breakfast as usual. On further investigation I realised he couldn't open his eyes and both nostrils had seemingly disappeared.
We went to the vets and she gave me some saline and some eye drops to use 3 times a day and asked me to take him back after a week. I cleaned his eyes 3 times a day as requested, and then put his drops in about 20-30 mins later. A week passed and things were pretty much the same. However, typically, when we got there the second time he had opened his eyes. She said she saw a definite improvement. His weight had gone down within a week from 107g to 105g as he hasn't eaten since first vet visit. She gave him a tube feed on tuesday at our second visit, just to give him something because he is so small. He tolerated it and kept it down. She said to continue with cleaning and drops and back in another week (due back Tuesday). She also suggested Reptoboost to put in water when I soak him which I've been doing daily. His eyes haven't opened like they were at the vets... when I get him out to clean and do his drops he opens them slightly after 5 mins or so. But as soon as I put him down he goes straight back to sleep. He isn't active, still won't eat. I have temporarily removed substrate from his viv to avoid it sticking to his eyes. Temp in viv is between 22-26°c with basking spot of about 30°. Humidity is generally 45-55. He has a UV tube light (exo terra brand) and an infrared basking spot light (also exo terra). Both recently changed (after his eye problem started, in case that was the problem). Any ideas as to what else I could be trying as it seems like he isn't really improving?
Vet said if no better by tuesday she may have to teach me how to give him injections of antibiotics🤷‍♀️
I feel like such a bad tortoise mum right now😔😔 any advice appreciated.
Tuckers Mum x

 

[Maggie3fan]

What is his substrate?

 

[TuckersMum]

At the moment he just has the straw pellets in. He usually also has prorep tortoise life (mediterranean) as well (mixture of topsoil and sand) which is the one I've temporarily removed on vets advice. I had also been using edible straw bedding in small amounts, but again, also removed this in case it was irritating him in some way.

 

[Maggie3fan]

At the moment he just has the straw pellets in. He usually also has prorep tortoise life (mediterranean) as well (mixture of topsoil and sand) which is the one I've temporarily removed on vets advice. I had also been using edible straw bedding in small amounts, but again, also removed this in case it was irritating him in some way.

By straw do you mean like rabbit pellets? Toxins are poisoning his eyes. Get rid of that now? Get orchid bark, (Reptibark), someone here from the UK will come in and tell you what substrate you can get in the UK...But throw that stuff out now. Also, walking on pellets causes their legs to 'splay' out to the side...pellets are bad news... Sand can cause impaction so nothing with sand. Stop taking him to the Vet and stop listening to them. Mostly his problem is that you have been given seriously bad advice which is killing your tortoise...
read this

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

 

[TuckersMum]

By straw do you mean like rabbit pellets? Toxins are poisoning his eyes. Get rid of that now? Get orchid bark, (Reptibark), someone here from the UK will come in and tell you what substrate you can get in the UK...But throw that stuff out now. Also, walking on pellets causes their legs to 'splay' out to the side...pellets are bad news... Sand can cause impaction so nothing with sand. Stop taking him to the Vet and stop listening to them. Mostly his problem is that you have been given seriously bad advice which is killing your tortoise...
read this

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

Either straw or dried grass pellets. Thanks so much. As soon as I know what to get I'm going out to find it. Feel like the worst tortoise mum ever 😔

 

[Maggie3fan]

Either straw or dried grass pellets. Thanks so much. As soon as I know what to get I'm going out to find it. Feel like the worst tortoise mum ever 😔

No you aren't...you were given bad information...did you read that info? We are here to help you...ask questions and change things and he will get better...but the pellets get thrown out today and just leave him...wait can you post some photos so we can see how he kept and what you need to change and make him better?

 

[TuckersMum]

No you aren't...you were given bad information...did you read that info? We are here to help you...ask questions and change things and he will get better...but the pellets get thrown out today and just leave him...wait can you post some photos so we can see how he kept and what you need to change and make him better?

The pet shop set up his viv for us when we got him and they advised us on what to use 😔 it's only the last few months I have started realising how wrong they usually are. Quick pic of full viv. I feel the need to completely restart and rebuild it with the right substrate and hiding places etc. Obvs usually has his sandy substrate in there too. 😔

 

[TammyJ]

@Tom

 

[TammyJ]

Hi everyone.
I am new here but have been coming to these forums for info since I got my Horsefield, Tucker last April.
From April until 2 weeks ago I had a happy, healthy and cheeky little tortoise. About 2 weeks ago I noticed he didn't come running for breakfast as usual. On further investigation I realised he couldn't open his eyes and both nostrils had seemingly disappeared.
We went to the vets and she gave me some saline and some eye drops to use 3 times a day and asked me to take him back after a week. I cleaned his eyes 3 times a day as requested, and then put his drops in about 20-30 mins later. A week passed and things were pretty much the same. However, typically, when we got there the second time he had opened his eyes. She said she saw a definite improvement. His weight had gone down within a week from 107g to 105g as he hasn't eaten since first vet visit. She gave him a tube feed on tuesday at our second visit, just to give him something because he is so small. He tolerated it and kept it down. She said to continue with cleaning and drops and back in another week (due back Tuesday). She also suggested Reptoboost to put in water when I soak him which I've been doing daily. His eyes haven't opened like they were at the vets... when I get him out to clean and do his drops he opens them slightly after 5 mins or so. But as soon as I put him down he goes straight back to sleep. He isn't active, still won't eat. I have temporarily removed substrate from his viv to avoid it sticking to his eyes. Temp in viv is between 22-26°c with basking spot of about 30°. Humidity is generally 45-55. He has a UV tube light (exo terra brand) and an infrared basking spot light (also exo terra). Both recently changed (after his eye problem started, in case that was the problem). Any ideas as to what else I could be trying as it seems like he isn't really improving?
Vet said if no better by tuesday she may have to teach me how to give him injections of antibiotics🤷‍♀️
I feel like such a bad tortoise mum right now😔😔 any advice appreciated.
Tuckers Mum x

I would not go back to that vet, especially having been told that the tortoise would be given antibiotic injections...for what? This is a husbandry issue, not your fault, having been told wrong information! Trust the experienced folks here, and in any case, get rid of the red light for sure. Thanks for caring and sharing, and we are here for you and your tortoise!

 

[TuckersMum]

I would not go back to that vet, especially having been told that the tortoise would be given antibiotic injections...for what? This is a husbandry issue, not your fault, having been told wrong information! Trust the experienced folks here, and in any case, get rid of the red light for sure. Thanks for caring and sharing, and we are here for you and your tortoise!

What do i replace the red light with?

 

[Maggie3fan]

What do i replace the red light with?

@wellington will tell you cuz I just use a 65 watt incandescent bulb...you probably need a strip light and I don't remember what they are...

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
You need a basking bulb - it's an old good incandescent flood bulb (65W-75W is a good start usually). If there are no such bulbs in the hardware stores, you can get one from a pet shop (for a higher price, obviously). Examples of such "reptile" lamps are: Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight, Exoterra Basking Spot Daylamp (not Intense Basking Spot!). Maybe ProRep makes such lamps as well. Just avoid words "halogen", "intense", "all in one", "UVB" in descriptions. You can check before buying with us.

And *maybe* you will need a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) for night/day ambient heat, used with a thermostat. It depends on what room temperatures are.

I highly recommend to read through this post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/
It covers all basic aspects of tortoise care. At the end of that post you can find lightning setup (look for a word "breakdown") and the link to the care sheet for Temperate species (it covers Russian tortoises husbandry in more details).

 

[wellington]

Hello!
You need a basking bulb - it's an old good incandescent flood bulb (65W-75W is a good start usually). If there are no such bulbs in the hardware stores, you can get one from a pet shop (for a higher price, obviously). Examples of such "reptile" lamps are: Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight, Exoterra Basking Spot Daylamp (not Intense Basking Spot!). Maybe ProRep makes such lamps as well. Just avoid words "halogen", "intense", "all in one", "UVB" in descriptions. You can check before buying with us.

And *maybe* you will need a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) for night/day ambient heat, used with a thermostat. It depends on what room temperatures are.

I highly recommend to read through this post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/
It covers all basic aspects of tortoise care. At the end of that post you can find lightning setup (look for a word "breakdown") and the link to the care sheet for Temperate species (it covers Russian tortoises husbandry in more details).

No spot bulbs should be used.
Incandescent flood or even a regular incandescent lamp type bulb will work if high enough watt for basking. Do not use mercury vapor,halogen, or coil (cfl) type bulbs.
A straight tube florescent for uvb and ceramic heat emitters for added day heat and night heat.

 

[TammyJ]

Can someone please post the lighting information here? I know very little about them, except that red lights should not be used. @Alex and the Redfoot @wellington

 

[TammyJ]

Can someone please post the lighting information here? I know very little about them, except that red lights should not be used. @Alex and the Redfoot @wellington

They just did.

 

[Yvonne G]

Besides the red light, do you have a UVB bulb? If so, what kind/brand of bulb is that? Some UVB bulbs are not good for tortoises' eyes (the spiral shaped CFLs) and some UVB lights are pretty harsh on baby tortoises' eyes ( the Mercury Vapor Bulbs, MVB)

In my opinion, the light has affected his eyes. As soon as you get the light situation figured out, his eyes should start to heal. Here's what I use:



It's been a while, but I THINK I bought the bulb and fixture from lightyourreptiles.com

 

[dd33]

Disease in Testudo species in Europe is common. An otherwise healthy tortoise can live a long life with some of the diseases they often carry but when husbandry conditions aren't perfect they can break down. Sometimes improving those conditions is enough to bring the tortoise back around and sometimes they aren't and the animal needs veterinary attention and treatment.
I would call around and find a different vet with a lot more tortoise experience, but don't dismiss working with a vet entirely. Tube feeding a small tortoise like that is risky and unnecessary if it had only lost a few grams. That would make me question this vets level of experience with tortoises.

 

[Sarah2020]

By straw do you mean like rabbit pellets? Toxins are poisoning his eyes. Get rid of that now? Get orchid bark, (Reptibark), someone here from the UK will come in and tell you what substrate you can get in the UK...But throw that stuff out now. Also, walking on pellets causes their legs to 'splay' out to the side...pellets are bad news... Sand can cause impaction so nothing with sand. Stop taking him to the Vet and stop listening to them. Mostly his problem is that you have been given seriously bad advice which is killing your tortoise...
read this

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

Hi and welcome......
Re substrate I recommend this orchid bark in fine for a small tortoise, when it is bigger you can buy the course or mix and match.

Swell Premium Orchid Bark Fine

Fine, woody substrate that is perfect for any rainforest setups Retains moisture and can be used to raise humidity Great for forest dwelling species and amphibians

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

Please read the care sheets and check your setup. I hope you can get your tortoise healthy again.

 

[TuckersMum]

Thanks so much for your replies and support so far you lot are brilliant. As well as the infrared bulb we have an Exo Terra Reptile UVB 100 Tube bulb.

Besides the red light, do you have a UVB bulb? If so, what kind/brand of bulb is that? Some UVB bulbs are not good for tortoises' eyes (the spiral shaped CFLs) and some UVB lights are pretty harsh on baby tortoises' eyes ( the Mercury Vapor Bulbs, MVB)

In my opinion, the light has affected his eyes. As soon as you get the light situation figured out, his eyes should start to heal. Here's what I use:

View attachment 366086

It's been a while, but I THINK I bought the bulb and fixture from lightyourreptiles.com

 

[TuckersMum]

Hi and welcome......
Re substrate I recommend this orchid bark in fine for a small tortoise, when it is bigger you can buy the course or mix and match.

Swell Premium Orchid Bark Fine

Fine, woody substrate that is perfect for any rainforest setups Retains moisture and can be used to raise humidity Great for forest dwelling species and amphibians

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

Please read the care sheets and check your setup. I hope you can get your tortoise healthy again.

Thanks so much. Will get some ordered. Would you recommend using this on its own or with anything else?