Poor Bones

[wellington]

I emailed Tyler from tortoise supply and he wasn't too happy. He said my problem is the enclosed chamber and that they are death traps which is why he doesn't use them. I know I caused his dehydration because I didn't check floor temp that one night.

What I'm really confused about his that I've followed everyone's advice and care sheets and he was doing well and then suddenly after the high temp he immediately declined.

He said he would make an exception and replace with a new tort if I pay shipping, but there would be no guarantee if I kept it in a closed chamber.

I'm heartbroken and I don't know what to do.

@Tom

 

[G-stars]

Can you please explain what you mean by “I caused his dehydration because I didn’t check floor temp”? Dehydration doesn’t happen overnight.

There are hundreds if not thousands of tortoises on this forum to back up that enclosed chambers are safe and are not death traps.

 

[drew54]

I figured it as my fault that he became dehydrated because floor temp (his level) was up to 104 as well in his humid hide where I put him at lights it every night. It was high all night long but the ambient temp above tort level was 85-88. I'm currently trying to increase the humidity above 85 to help. He is currently soaking in a carrot Pedialyte mixture.

I believe he was thriving when it was 90+ humidity and when the coir was swampy.

 

[wellington]

Btw, at @Tom has raised many sulcata and leopard babies in closed chambers with no shell rot, mold comes from the food if you don't clean it or improper substrate and respiratory problems come when temps are too low, below 80 which is not recommended in the caresheet.

 

[Minority2]

An enclosed chamber is suppose to keep temperature levels consistent within a certain range. The entire closed chamber enclosure, other than the basking spot, will be the same at the same temperature and humidity level. That is how it's supposed to be.

That can only happen if the owner understands how to rig and regulate their enclosures. A themostat can only regulate the ceramic heat emitter or reptile heat panel, it will not be able to regulate the heat of the basking bulb.

I don't think one day of slightly hotter temperatures would completely change a tortoise's health. How high was the temperature?

I figured it as my fault that he became dehydrated because floor temp (his level) was up to 104 as well in his humid hide where I put him at lights it every night. It was high all night long but the ambient temp above tort level was 85-88. I'm currently trying to increase the humidity above 85 to help. He is currently soaking in a carrot Pedialyte mixture.

I believe he was thriving when it was 90+ humidity and when the coir was swampy.

104F is not hot. 95-105F is a normal range for basking bulbs. I don't see anything wrong with a 104F basking temperature.

 

[Minority2]

I emailed Tyler from tortoise supply and he wasn't too happy. He said my problem is the enclosed chamber and that they are death traps which is why he doesn't use them. I know I caused his dehydration because I didn't check floor temp that one night.

What I'm really confused about his that I've followed everyone's advice and care sheets and he was doing well and then suddenly after the high temp he immediately declined.

He said he would make an exception and replace with a new tort if I pay shipping, but there would be no guarantee if I kept it in a closed chamber.

I'm heartbroken and I don't know what to do.

What is @TylerStewart's reasons for claiming this?

 

[G-stars]

I see, I just read your other post. Maybe a mod can combine them. It will be easier to track. You mentioned that his plastron was sunken in?

Personally I don’t believe that a temp of 104F for a day would cause that. I’ve kept my tortoises at similar temperatures and they still will bask. I would rule that out as a cause of dehydration and especially of the sunken plastron. I don’t know how the breeder starts of their hatchlings.

 

[drew54]

@Tom

I'm attaching screen shots of the email not to start anything, but because I just don't know what to do except what I've been doing.

 

[wellington]

I'm attaching screen shots of the email not to start anything, but because I just don't know what to do except what I've been doing.

When done right, which is not below 80 like is said on this forum and caresheets there isn't a problem. When it's done wrong temps go below 80.

 

[g4mobile]

You don't really run into problems like this in a closed chamber. The whole enclosure is the same temperature - no hot side, no cool side, no cold at the floor but hot up above, no hot at the floor but cold up above. . . the whole "chamber" fills up with the same temperature

I thought the exact thing. My enclosed chamber is a consistent 86-90 degrees with 80-90% humidity. Under the basking light, it's 95 degrees, but this doesn't change the overall ambient temperature. My baby tortoise is thriving in this set-up. I am soaking daily 10-30 minutes.

How are you checking the temperature where he is basking? It may be hotter than the 100 deg. you mentioned off the top of his shell. I am using a digital infrared temp. gun and it's accurate.

Do you have a UVB bulb?

 

[G-stars]

It’s simple. Cold and humid is bad. Warm and humid is good. I raise my hatchlings at 75f+ and 60-80% humidity. Once they are old enough to be outside full time they are exposed to temps as low as 60F and humidity levels of no higher than 50%. They are all healthy.

 

[G-stars]

Also how long have you had this tortoise? Has this tortoise been growing/ gaining weight?

 

[Minority2]

I'm attaching screen shots of the email not to start anything, but because I just don't know what to do except what I've been doing.

1. Am I reading this correctly? You have a heated humid hide box inside of your enclosure?

2. Does this mean your hide box is not at the same temperature level as your ambient temperatures but are the same level as your basking bulb? Does that mean you have a basking bulb placed directly below your hide box?

 

[drew54]

I have a reptisun 10 t8 uvb tube. The reason the temp changed on the hide side was because I swapped the water logged coir out for dampened coir and put damp orchid bark over it. The thermostat probe was in the coir under the bark, so the Che heated the whole chamber up to 104 after lights when out. The next morning I gave him a soak as normal and I used my temp gun to check temps and that's when I noticed the whole enclosure was 104. So, I realized that the probe was covered and not on top of the bark and reading cooler temps tat what it actually was. I fixed all of it immediately and I got the temps where they needed to be. When I got home from work my routine ous do a temp and humidity check, a physical check of the tort, and change water, put fresh grass, greens, etc, make any temp and humidity adjustments as needed while he soaks for 30+ min under the uvb light. Afterwards he eats and runs around. When I got home he didn't eat and he was lethargic.

 

[drew54]

No no it's not heated. It stays around 85. it's to the left of the Che not directly under it. It's usually maybe a degree or two cooler than the ambient temp.

 

[drew54]

My temps have never dropped below 80 ambient art at tort level and in hide. And since I covered it the humidity hadn't dropped below 80 either. So, I'm really lost.

 

[drew54]

He is still at 57g. He lost 1g and then I weighed him after his first 30 min of soaking and he is back 57g. But that's what he was when I weighed him for the first time last Thursday.

 

[g4mobile]

I have a reptisun 10 t8 uvb tube. The reason the temp changed on the hide side was because I swapped the water logged coir out for dampened coir and put damp orchid bark over it. The thermostat probe was in the coir under the bark, so the Che heated the whole chamber up to 104 after lights when out. The next morning I gave him a soak as normal and I used my temp gun to check temps and that's when I noticed the whole enclosure was 104. So, I realized that the probe was covered and not on top of the bark and reading cooler temps tat what it actually was. I fixed all of it immediately and I got the temps where they needed to be. When I got home from work my routine ous do a temp and humidity check, a physical check of the tort, and change water, put fresh grass, greens, etc, make any temp and humidity adjustments as needed while he soaks for 30+ min under the uvb light. Afterwards he eats and runs around. When I got home he didn't eat and he was lethargic.

I am looking at your set up and feel the 10.0 UVB bulb may be too much. I am using a 5.0 UVB, as I don't feel baby torts need to be blasted by heavy UVB. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. How many inches is it from your UVB bulb to the tortoise?

 

[drew54]

Btw, at @Tom has raised many sulcata and leopard babies in closed chambers with no shell rot, mold comes from the food if you don't clean it or improper substrate and respiratory problems come when temps are too low, below 80 which is not recommended in the caresheet.

Tats why I've followed his care sheet to the best of my ability. I was wondering if I had gotten a runt. He seems to be the same size as when I got him on 9/2/18. I'll keep up the soaks and everything. No, I don't think it's a bad place or he is a bad breeder. I was just thrown off with his response, however, I see passion and care in his response.

 

[drew54]

I am looking at your set up and feel the 10.0 UVB bulb may be too much. I am using a 5.0 UVB, as I don't feel baby torts need to be blasted by heavy UVB. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. How many inches is it from your UVB bulb to the tortoise?

He is 11 inches away from the lamp. He has been doing well with it from what I have seen. I could be wrong.