Please advise with RF outdoor enclosure build in central Texas climate zone

[Pearly]

Hi Guys, I'm putting this here in RF section as my questions are RF specific. I hope some RF keepers from around this area chime in to give me some advise.
I start building enclosure on my backyard in few weeks and before go to Lowes for the building materials I thought I'd ask few questions here.

1) do RF's dig? My babies like to dig themselves into the substrate to sleep at times, but do I need to dig to certain depth under the fencing and line it with chicken wire or something to prevent them from digging themselves out? If underground protection needs to be dug outI may need to get one of those Bobcat heavy diggers and that would be a huge project which I could probably not be able to do this year

2) I'm thinking about using cinder blocks, with all the plants I have I can make it work so it's not an eyesore in my backyard. I am not handy with tools at all so it has to be simple but look nice in the end. The ground here is very hard if not impossible to dig in without heavy machinery. The house sits on bedrock of limestone so the fencing needs to be something I can lay on top of the ground (no digging in posts or anything like that)

Any thoughts, advice, ideas, pictures would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[mike taylor]

This is how my enclosure is built . It's all made out of metal buried in the ground about six inches . Reds really don't dig but better safe than sorry . I took buckets and cut the tops in half and buried them . Then planted weeds and grasses . They eat everything you put in with them .So keep seeds on hand . I use deer plotting mix from Tractor Supply .Here are pictures of my setup.

 

[Anyfoot]

This is how my enclosure is built . It's all made out of metal buried in the ground about six inches . Reds really don't dig but better safe than sorry . I took buckets and cut the tops in half and buried them . Then planted weeds and grasses . They eat everything you put in with them .So keep seeds on hand . I use deer plotting mix from Tractor Supply .Here are pictures of my setup.

looks nice that mike, How have you managed to get a dandelion flower before it got eaten? My reds love the dandy flowers.

 

[Anyfoot]

Hi Guys, I'm putting this here in RF section as my questions are RF specific. I hope some RF keepers from around this area chime in to give me some advise.
I start building enclosure on my backyard in few weeks and before go to Lowes for the building materials I thought I'd ask few questions here.

1) do RF's dig? My babies like to dig themselves into the substrate to sleep at times, but do I need to dig to certain depth under the fencing and line it with chicken wire or something to prevent them from digging themselves out? If underground protection needs to be dug outI may need to get one of those Bobcat heavy diggers and that would be a huge project which I could probably not be able to do this year

2) I'm thinking about using cinder blocks, with all the plants I have I can make it work so it's not an eyesore in my backyard. I am not handy with tools at all so it has to be simple but look nice in the end. The ground here is very hard if not impossible to dig in without heavy machinery. The house sits on bedrock of limestone so the fencing needs to be something I can lay on top of the ground (no digging in posts or anything like that)

Any thoughts, advice, ideas, pictures would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Ok, just thinking off the top of my head here. You said the floor is to hard to dig for posts, how will your torts dig it if you cant. Is it a fine gravel.

Options:

1. Lay a cinder block barrier assuming they cant dig.

2. lay a cinder block barrier and drive some sort of spikes down inside the cinder block hole so it creates an underground barrier under the cinder blocks.

3. lay a cinder block barrier and on the inside lay flagstones down up to the cinders so they cant dig near your cinders.

They don't dig tunnels like a sully would, they just like to bury in or dig for nesting.

 

[tctpa523]

If you sink a barrier 6 to 12 inches deep, you should be good to go. Redfoots don't dig like some other species. They will dig themselves down in the ground on occasion to cool of, or in search of moisture to lay in, but they are not a "burrowing" species. I try to give my guys lots of sun, some good shaded areas, and a couple of hollow faux rocks they can hide under.
Humidity is really important to this species, here in south Florida that's easily solved because it's 70% humidity or better here all the time. In Texas, you'll probably need a misting system of some kind and a small shallow pond or tub where they can soak. I have a pile in my yard where I pile all the trim from my banana trees. As they rot, they release a lot of trapped moisture, and provide the tortoises a great place to hide. The decomposing vegetation provides some warmth in the winter and the humidity provides cooling in the summer. I also have a giant hay pile in the corner of the yard that provides them a dry hide when they want less humidity.
My only other recommendation would be to line your concrete block with wood. They can damage their shells very quickly on stone or concrete.

 

[Pearly]

You Guys are AWESOME! Thanks for quick replies. I'll address each one individually tonight niw gotta get going. Later, Gators

 

[mike taylor]

I don't like to use cinder blocks . They scratch up the shell when they rub against the walls . My reds like to rub their butts on stuff .

 

[mike taylor]

I like using -R- panels for fencing . It's smooth and will not scratch up their shells . Here is a picture of my sulcata fenced in area.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I use "dog houses" through out my enclosures that have a couple of inches of mulch in them.(Also some half drainage pipes) The tortoises spend the hot part of the days in there and they also sleep inside. I see NO digging of any kind except for very shallow depressions.
No need to worry about them digging out. It wont happen.
One thing to keep in mind is when you make (IF YOU MAKE) a pond for them, make sure that it is a shape that will let you sweep it clean with a broom or a squeegee type thing because they will poop in it every day.
My enclosures are all based on pounded steel stakes into the ground and then made of wood. I can't help you there.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I would also advise that you make a hole in the exterior walls to place said doghouses and mount them with screws to the outside of the pen. This way they will ADD square footage instead of take away valuable room. I've used composting bins here. I like them because they are HUGE, cheap and the lids are on hinges.

 

[Big B]

I like cinder blocks but they can be ugly. I go two high with a cap on top, it makes a great place to sit and watch the tortoises. The first time I used mortar and stucco to make it permanent, but now I leave it loose so I can change it up. You can leave off the caps and put plants in the tops. The cinder blocks warm up nice to heat them up in the morning.

 

[Pearly]

This is how my enclosure is built . It's all made out of metal buried in the ground about six inches . Reds really don't dig but better safe than sorry . I took buckets and cut the tops in half and buried them . Then planted weeds and grasses . They eat everything you put in with them .So keep seeds on hand . I use deer plotting mix from Tractor Supply .Here are pictures of my setup.

Thanks, Mike! Your place looks great I've already started researching the seed situation and found local nurseries that carry organic stuff. Found some clover seeds and few other edibles. Plantain and few other things are not likely to grow here in Texas climate but I should have plenty others to offer.

 

[Pearly]

Ok, just thinking off the top of my head here. You said the floor is to hard to dig for posts, how will your torts dig it if you cant. Is it a fine gravel.

Options:

1. Lay a cinder block barrier assuming they cant dig.

2. lay a cinder block barrier and drive some sort of spikes down inside the cinder block hole so it creates an underground barrier under the cinder blocks.

3. lay a cinder block barrier and on the inside lay flagstones down up to the cinders so they cant dig near your cinders.

They don't dig tunnels like a sully would, they just like to bury in or dig for nesting.

Hey, thanks again for quick reply. We live on the edge of Texas Hill Country, the bedrock of limestone. Just few miles from my house we have one of the many beautiful caverns that are open to the visitors. Our beautiful Capital Building in Austin was build from local materials. Workers hauled harvested locally red granite by horse drawn carts. My backyard has no fancy red granite, just random white rock that you hit every time you try to put a shovel down. When planting trees or shrubs after the house was first built my husband had to resort to using crowbar to assist with digging small holes. Thankfully my subdivision was built in naturally wooded area where all big oak trees are protected by law, so all I had to plant is just small ornamentals that fit in 2-5 gal size pot. Anything bigger would require heavy excavating equipment.
To address your question, there is a thin layer of top soil that the builder brought in to cover random size rock, so you are probably right, the torts would probably tear down their nails before digging anything out
I didn't even think about it that way! Thank you for being my Voice of Reason!
Here I am all freaked out about something that is a long way off, plus those babies are still tiny, still fit in my small hand, so while working on their big new place I may just resort to using temporary portable place for them outside.
I'll keep you Guys posted as I progress.

 

[Anyfoot]

Hey, thanks again for quick reply. We live on the edge of Texas Hill Country, the bedrock of limestone. Just few miles from my house we have one of the many beautiful caverns that are open to the visitors. Our beautiful Capital Building in Austin was build from local materials. Workers hauled harvested locally red granite by horse drawn carts. My backyard has no fancy red granite, just random white rock that you hit every time you try to put a shovel down. When planting trees or shrubs after the house was first built my husband had to resort to using crowbar to assist with digging small holes. Thankfully my subdivision was built in naturally wooded area where all big oak trees are protected by law, so all I had to plant is just small ornamentals that fit in 2-5 gal size pot. Anything bigger would require heavy excavating equipment.
To address your question, there is a thin layer of top soil that the builder brought in to cover random size rock, so you are probably right, the torts would probably tear down their nails before digging anything out
I didn't even think about it that way! Thank you for being my Voice of Reason!
Here I am all freaked out about something that is a long way off, plus those babies are still tiny, still fit in my small hand, so while working on their big new place I may just resort to using temporary portable place for them outside.
I'll keep you Guys posted as I progress.

If it was me I would use cinder blocks just placed on the ground, fill em up with soil and use as planters. You could even cover the inside of the blocks in some areas with plastic wire mesh to grow things along the mesh that your torts could eat.(just need to make sure torts won't get caught up or eat the mesh) Like grape vines or squash type plants. I'm not sure what your climate is like. You don't even have to put the blocks in straight linear lines, create curves(so it looks like a snake shape from above), grow a fig tree, mulberry, hibiscus. I kinder like the look of cinders. We don't use them much over here.
What size area are you planning on giving them?

 

[Pearly]

If you sink a barrier 6 to 12 inches deep, you should be good to go. Redfoots don't dig like some other species. They will dig themselves down in the ground on occasion to cool of, or in search of moisture to lay in, but they are not a "burrowing" species. I try to give my guys lots of sun, some good shaded areas, and a couple of hollow faux rocks they can hide under.
Humidity is really important to this species, here in south Florida that's easily solved because it's 70% humidity or better here all the time. In Texas, you'll probably need a misting system of some kind and a small shallow pond or tub where they can soak. I have a pile in my yard where I pile all the trim from my banana trees. As they rot, they release a lot of trapped moisture, and provide the tortoises a great place to hide. The decomposing vegetation provides some warmth in the winter and the humidity provides cooling in the summer. I also have a giant hay pile in the corner of the yard that provides them a dry hide when they want less humidity.
My only other recommendation would be to line your concrete block with wood. They can damage their shells very quickly on stone or concrete.

Hahah! 6-12 inches! That's a depth of entire shovel! all I can dig in is often just a tip. That's the reason I could never do the European garden here.
Over the years I learned to enjoy the Texas native plants and no longer try to cheat the climate or this very alkaline soil.

My tort enclosure will be on the East side of the house so plenty of morning sun and no afternoon blaze one side of it is protected by large oak tree canopy, so I think the location should be perfect for their home.

I do have sprinkles in my front and back yard. Over here you couldn't have a lawn or garden without one unless willing to spend couple of hrs (twice a day in the summer!) with the water hose.

Great point about lining cinder blocks with wood! Thank you for that!
I had this "uneasy feeling" about the looks and rough texture of the cinder block, just didn't have a "name" for it.
Yes! It makes sense! I just just see the babies bumping against it and ruining their perfectly beautiful shells. I was going to plant some nice perennials to cover the cinders blocks but I was thinking more in esthetic categories. You are right, lining the inner perimeter with something softer will need to be done.

I'm glad you mentioned a garden trimmings pile. I was thinking to do this same, raked leaves and such, maybe even compost pile if I decide to go that big (the enclosure would have to extent to the side of the house where compost is not visible from the front or backyard).
Anyway, you gave me some food for thought. Thank you.

 

[Pearly]

If you sink a barrier 6 to 12 inches deep, you should be good to go. Redfoots don't dig like some other species. They will dig themselves down in the ground on occasion to cool of, or in search of moisture to lay in, but they are not a "burrowing" species. I try to give my guys lots of sun, some good shaded areas, and a couple of hollow faux rocks they can hide under.
Humidity is really important to this species, here in south Florida that's easily solved because it's 70% humidity or better here all the time. In Texas, you'll probably need a misting system of some kind and a small shallow pond or tub where they can soak. I have a pile in my yard where I pile all the trim from my banana trees. As they rot, they release a lot of trapped moisture, and provide the tortoises a great place to hide. The decomposing vegetation provides some warmth in the winter and the humidity provides cooling in the summer. I also have a giant hay pile in the corner of the yard that provides them a dry hide when they want less humidity.
My only other recommendation would be to line your concrete block with wood. They can damage their shells very quickly on stone or concrete.

And I just noticed that you just recently joined in! Warm welcome to TFO!!!! And thank you for your ideas.

 

[Pearly]

I don't like to use cinder blocks . They scratch up the shell when they rub against the walls . My reds like to rub their butts on stuff .

Yep! I'm not deadest on cinder blocks just need something that's heavy and sturdy enough that when sat on the ground won't badge with tort activity. If I stay with the cinders I'll be addressing the rough inner surface for sure

 

[Pearly]

I like using -R- panels for fencing . It's smooth and will not scratch up their shells . Here is a picture of my sulcata fenced in area.

Oh, what would I give for a piece of land to have that! And no HOA the meddle in my business. But living in subdivision has it's benefits too. My backyard is not as small as some, but it's not big either. Those panels look great and are probably much lighter to haul in then cinders, but my house sits on a slope so I'll have uneven surface to deal with. To make the enclosure bigger it will wrap around one of the corners of the house going down the hill a little, which I thought the babies might enjoy. They seem to love climbing.
See?! I'm not easy to help! Most people have either money to pay to get the job done or skills to do it. I have neither, and dealing with recent injury not physically able to do it myself either hahah! I'm doomed!....
Nah! I'll figure it out. With your ideas and my determination I think my daughter's pet tortoise will enjoy the outdoors from daybreak to dusk this summer

 

[Pearly]

I use "dog houses" through out my enclosures that have a couple of inches of mulch in them.(Also some half drainage pipes) The tortoises spend the hot part of the days in there and they also sleep inside. I see NO digging of any kind except for very shallow depressions.
No need to worry about them digging out. It wont happen.
One thing to keep in mind is when you make (IF YOU MAKE) a pond for them, make sure that it is a shape that will let you sweep it clean with a broom or a squeegee type thing because they will poop in it every day.
My enclosures are all based on pounded steel stakes into the ground and then made of wood. I can't help you there.

Hey, thanks Ed!
I used to live in your area in the early 90's, worked close to corner of Commercial Blvd and US1. Digging in that soil was peanuts! Unless there were some big tree roots around.
This ground here is HORRIBLE to cultivate! After few yrs of trying I just decided to focus on Texas natives and starting lots of plants from seeds. I don't "turn soil", the only work my soil gets is when I move my perennials or plant small new plants. SMALL is the key (don't have to dig up big hole).
Yes, I am thinking about water feature in the enclosure more then just water dish.
Lucky for me the enclosure goes in where I used to have a nice rose garden (15 yrs ago or more). My husband was the one digging there, so the soil inside the enclosure should be workable for excavating little pond for the babies.
Thank you for pointing out the cleaning/shape issue. I'll be sure to consider that.
The thing that does worry me a bit is the standing water/mosquitoes. We get them pretty bad some years. I have lots of low growing vegetation and with sprinklers going all summer there's plenty of water in my backyard for them to thrive. Add little pond to it and I may have a West Nile village here. How do you deal with that? Unless your house is like right on the beach you might be facing this same problem. What do you do? Also do you get lots of other uninvited guests who come for drinks (snakes, rats)?

 

[Pearly]

I like cinder blocks but they can be ugly. I go two high with a cap on top, it makes a great place to sit and watch the tortoises. The first time I used mortar and stucco to make it permanent, but now I leave it loose so I can change it up. You can leave off the caps and put plants in the tops. The cinder blocks warm up nice to heat them up in the morning.

Yes! They are very ugly! That's why I'm already thinking "tortoise friendly plants to conceal it". What kind of a "cap" do you use? Do you have a picture?
Again, please excuse my ignorance but you are dealing with a 49yr old woman with NO handy or construction skill/knowledge whatsoever. If I had the time I'd take the classes Home Depot offers at times on Saturdays
Man! My daughter better appreciate what I'm doing here for her baby torts