Ornate Help please!

[nano]

I recently acquired two ornate box turtles. They are a male and a female, and are around 15 years old I was told. I have had them for just under a week and a half and they have not eaten and I am getting worried, and am hoping that someone can offer me some advise.

They are in a 3' X 2" enclosure with solid sides, and an open top. They have bark chips on the bottom. The bark chips on the very bottom are quite wet, and adrier on the top. I also have a paint tray in there for a water dish/pool. I have a hide at each end, and a fake reptile plant to offer some cover.

There is a heat lamp and a flourescent uv lamp (Strip lamp 5.0, new). The temps are 95 right under the heat lamp, and low 70's at the cool end.

I have offered them endive, escarole, dandelion, spring mix, romaine, small super worms, dew worms and wax worms, and they have eaten nothing. I am going to pick up some melon today because I have heard that they like this and it is high in vitamin A.

All they have done so far is hide (Which I know that they are a shy turtle) I am getting worried about them not eating. Their eyes look a little puffy to me, and are closed a lot, but there is no discharge or anything from them. I have seen no discharge from their nose either. I did have the in a smaller tank to start with because they arrived earlier than intended, and didn't have their other encolsure ready. I don't think the humidity was high enough in the other tank. They have been in the new enclosure since Saturday evening.

I have started soaking them in water with some bird vitamins to see if that helps (This morning was their second soak, I left them in it for about an hour). If anyone has any other suggestions on what to do, I would be very grateful!

Thanks

 

[Itort]

Strawberries often work well on boxies. Keep in mind that in the wild they are active in early morning and late afternoon, so bright light is avoided. Also releasing earthworms in substrat may help as they hunt and for them.

 

[nano]

I did try strawberries as well one day, but will try them again. I have been offering fresh food both morning and evening. I will try letting some earthworms loose.

They are always in the same spot where I leave them, hiding in the mulch, so I don't think they are moving around a lot, if at all!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I would soak them in strained carrots at every soaking. I would offer them live food night crawlers super worms and crickets are favorites. If their eyes are starting to get puffy they are starting to get in real trouble. Also I would stop with the Uv light and just use a regular bulb for a while. Cantaloupe and berries are good for them, blueberries and raspberries blackberries are good. I would get a shallow dish and put super worms in it and then go away and not watch them eat. Most box turtles don't like to be watched. Use a shallow plastic dish that the worms can't get out of. Canned cat food is something else that they can't usually resist. Ornata are the most sensitive of all the box turtles and most don't seem to do well in captivity...good luck with them and please keep us posted.
You said they have bark chips but what is on top of that? Do they have soft soil?

 

[nano]

I had them on a mix of coco fiber and bark chips before, but the coco fiber just seemed to sick to their eyes, so I switched them to the bark chips....it's just straight bar chips.

I will try the strained carrots. and will stop the uv for a while.

They are in a spare bedroom, with the door closed, so they are in a really quiet area. I only go in their to put their food in, and when I soak them.

 

[egyptiandan]

The best thing I can tell you to do is seperate them. They are showing all the classic symptoms of being stressed. Ornate box turtles stress very easily when they can see another Ornate all the time. When I have mine inside they have to be alone or one will always get sick.
Your 2 might also be in the early stages of a respiratory infection, which you would need to see a vet for.
Keep them warm, damp and seperate and you should be able to pull them through. Keep an eye out for any nasal discharge.
Soaking them in water with vitamins is a good idea as well as try worms with them after you soak them.

Danny

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I would also like to see them on a better substrate. When you say bark chips do you know what grade they are? Are they mostly like soil or are they pieces of wood you can pick up? I use fine grade orchid bark for mine. And contrary to what Danny says I have a small colony of ornate and 3-toed all living happily together. If they were living together at their previous home there would be no need to separate them now. Were they together before? I think they are just stressed from the move and living in a different home.

 

[egyptiandan]

Maggie I was talking inside, seeing as these 2 are inside right now. I can keep up to 4 together in an 8' X 4' pen outside.
How big is your pen Maggie? How many Ornates do you have? and how many box turtles total in the pen?
You'll be even grumpier after this
Sorry in advance for hi-jacking the thread Nano

Danny

 

[Crazy1]

Nano. Just out of curiosity what type of bark chips do you have them on? I'm looking for the brand name or the type of wood that is used. is it Pine? douglas fir? Aspen?

 

[Yvonne G]

Nano. Just out of curiosity what type of bark chips do you have them on? I'm looking for the brand name or the type of wood that is used. is it Pine? douglas fir? Aspen?

This was my thought too, Robyn. Maybe Nano is using pine bark chips and the oil in the pine is effecting the eyes.

Yvonne

 

[nano]

It is a reptile bark called Jungle Earth....it's bark chips, but they are a finer bark chips....I'm not sure what type of wood it is, but I know it's not pine, aspen or cedar.

I talked to the guy I got them today, and he told me they were with other, 11 in total, and he had seperated these two to be together because they were always breeding. They came out of burmation about a month ago, and in his care had been very active, and eating well. (he has only had them about a month)

After looking at them more closely I am not positive that their eyes are puffy, but they are closed a lot. There is no discharge. If I pick them up they do open them. The guy I got them from said there is a possibility that they may be trying to go back into burmation....is this possible? They came from about 2 hours away, but I am at about 1000 ft higher elevation....could this have anything to do with it?

Maybe I am stressing over the fact that they are stressed....I just want to do everything right for these guys!

 

[Laura]

What type of set up were they used to? Is yours close to that or completely different? Inside or out? Large area?
Iwould try to make it as close to what they were used to and doing so well..

 

[nano]

The set ups are very similar to what they were in....temps, substrate, humidity etc.

Do you think the air pressure change could have anything to do with it? Do you think that they could be going back into hibernation....or trying to?

They are inside....I am in Canada, so It's still quite cold here! It was plus 20 degress celcius a couple of days ago, and now its minus 4, so no outside time for a while still!

 

[egyptiandan]

It sounds like the person you got them from is a dealer (he only had them a month). They are of course WC and most likely haven't been hibernated. Can't see anyone buying to resell animals right out of hibernation.
These turtles have been sent from place to place and have made it to you very stressed. If they haven't eaten for you, they didn't eat for him.
As long as your temperatures are high enough and your lights on long enough, they aren't trying to hibernate.
The best advice I can give you is to keep them warm, 34C under the basking lamp, 28C to 30C warm end, 18C to 20C cool end and 18C at night, humid (I keep mine on peatmoss when inside), a water dish they can soak in (about 2 inches deep) and keep them seperately untill they are healthy. After they are healthy you can try keeping them together, especially outside.

Danny

 

[nano]

They are from a dealer, and he got them from a breeder who was selling out of the ornates. I am not sure if they were origally WC or not, but have been in captivity for years (what I was told) I know the dealer, and trust what he is telling me, but who knows if what he was told was the truth. I have talked to him about them not eating, and has told me to just keep trying what I am trying and to let them settle in a bit more. He has also told me that if anything should happen to them that he will replace them, but he doesn't think that it wil be needed.

Thanks for all the advise, and I am still open to any other advise. I think that they are just super stressed. The one was out today, soaking in her water dish, so hopefully that is a good sign. I soaked them this evening in some fruit/veggie juice (no sugar) that is really high in vitamin A, so hopefully that will help too!

 

[nano]

Is my substrate all right, or should I try something different? They are on reptile bark chips, fairly fine, and kept very moist, almost wet at the bottom. I have coco fiber mixed in too, but that seemed just to stick in their eyes!

 

[nano]

Just a quick update!

I ended up taking them to the vet for a check up....They think the female has a slight repiratory infection, so I came home with anitbiotics, a dewormer, and some fluids for sub cu injections! Also some hand feeding formula, which I decided to wait a bit to use, as it really stresses them out, and they seem to just spit most of it out!

Last night, while I was checking on them, I noticed the male looking at his worm dish....just looking, but not too interested . I took a large superworm from another dish in thier cage (Which has been in there all along) and put it in the dish he was looking at and he did not waste anytime looking at it....it was eaten so fast! He ended up eating about 4 or 5 of them! What a relief! Hopefully the female will follow shortly. I don't know why he wouldn't eat them out of the other dish, but he is eating either way!

thanks again for all the advise!

 

[bettinge]

Glad he is eating now! Sure is strange what makes these critters tick. I guess thats part of the fun of owning them, your always learning.

 

[Yvonne G]

I have noticed that if I have my enclosure too cold, the turtles keep their eyes shut a lot. Maybe you need to warm it up a bit.

Yvonne

 

[nano]

So it has been just under a week since our trip to the vet. The male has been eating great!! I have been giving their meds daily, and doing daily soaks. I tried the hand feeding formula that the vet gave me for the female, but she just spat it out....cheeky little girl! I have ben hand feeding her some baby food for the past few days, after finally finding something she likes, and this morning she finally ate all on her own. She had some baby food, and then I put her in her enclosure, and she chowed down 4 super worms!!! Horray!!!

I am very relieved that they are doing well, and that you everyone for your help!