Opinions please

[Anyfoot]

This little guy is just about 5 months old now. You can see the growth pattern is just starting to change (that crevice).
Is it normal?
Is it the start of pyramiding?
Why is it happening?

Cheers.

Craig.

 

[Yvonne G]

Looks like he was exceptionally wrinkled from being jammed up in the egg. Smoothing out nicely

@Markw84 talked about the dip over the hips a couple days ago. I don't remember what he said, but hopefully he'll see this and comment.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Looks okay to me. Sometimes while still plastic, the enamel wins in it's tension conflict with the bone, but it can balance in one or two days.

I'd have to take an image daily of each of the ten older ones I have now to make a stop motion 'movie' to show what I mean. I don't have the time for that.

 

[Markw84]

Agree pretty much with what Will said. You have the experience watching redfoot grow, Craig. But I will say that with the species I have obsessed over, with faster growth, the crevice starts, then widens. If kept moist enough, the new keratin fills, then swells to fill in. It even leaves a bit of a bulge upwards at its peak, then levels off. The spurt does always leave a growth line though. Sometimes, when there has been a marked slow down just prior, the crevice remains as a much more obvious growth line. With pyramiding, the groove starts to fill in with new keratin, but the keratin hardens quickly and does not swell up. Instead the growth is forced downward. From what we can see, it appears to remain more flat, not swell upwards. Subsequent crevices repeat and you have a widening dip. I want to see the swelling!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

No doubt a sign of 'fast-growth' brought on by over-eating. This is a challenge for most raising hatchlings - always has for me. I've been accused of not feeding enough now.

 

[Anyfoot]

Thanks everyone. If any of my torts start growing bumpy it always starts around the 5 month mark. Upto 5 months old they are always perfectly smooth.

Sooooo.....
Only options I can think of are.

1. Over feeding, but I have not changed the diet routine, If it is down to overfeeding then why all of a sudden at 5 months old would there be a change in growth.

2. Growing too dry. There is absolutely no way these tortoises are dehydrated. Not a chance. I have 4 water dishes, the humidity is at 99% constantly. I spray them daily and soak them daily. There is one exception though, read on.

3. At around 4 months old they got brave. The animals now see me enter the room and run to the glass for feeding. They have become tame, fearless and have learnt when they see me it’s feeding time. What runs along side with this is I’ve also noticed they no longer hide in the mounds and mounds of moist moss, they now sit on top of the moss without fear. So where as before they would sit and hide with moist moss on the carapace, now they sit with 99% humidity on the carapace. This could indicate that no amount of humidity and soaking alone grows them smooth.
It’s back to my thought of, Do they grow when at rest? When at rest at such a young age do they have to be hidden with something moist over the carapace(natural moist foliage).
As of last night I will be covering each and every baby with moist moss when lights are out.

3. Lack of animal protein( probably more like slugs,worms and bugs).
You would think when a baby is at its most developing stage would be when it requires the most protein to get bone, keratin and muscle growth growing strong.
Could it be that around the 5 months mark is when the eggsack protein is all used up.
I haven’t fed any animal protein yet. Greens/weeds. Very occasional mushrooms and fruit. Nutrobal is sprinkled on food every other day. 5ml between 24 tortoises. Uvb is available 14hrs a day over the feeding area.

I know this is not redfoot related but....

I was reading about the green sea turtle the other day. It’s an omnivore as a juvenile and becomes totally a herbivore as an adult. WHY??????


I’ll keep doing what I’m doing for a while and see if anything changes, if not I will half the amount of food offered. It may quite easily be part of the growing process. But boy do I hate it when I see a wide growth crevice.

 

[Anyfoot]

What I should have added is that some grow on bumpy and some grow on perfect in the past. I feel it’s going to happen again even though Ive tightened up on care.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

How many times have we talked about how you have "analyzed until you're paralyzed"?! For over 20 years I've watched redfoots - and they never cease to amaze me... always doing something different. Unless you can monitor 'each-and-every-one' individually... you will have this phenomenon ! Are your kids the same? What would your beloved grandfather say about now Craig....?

At best we can try to see some form of pattern in this STUDY called herpetology.

BTW.. redear sliders are the same as those green sea turtles .. only just the opposite - or may be the same [ I forget actually haha ]

 

[Anyfoot]

How many times have we talked about how you have "analyzed until you're paralyzed"?! For over 20 years I've watched redfoots - and they never cease to amaze me... always doing something different. Unless you can monitor 'each-and-every-one' individually... you will have this phenomenon ! Are your kids the same? What would your beloved grandfather say about now Craig....?

At best we can try to see some form of pattern in this STUDY called herpetology.

BTW.. redear sliders are the same as those green sea turtles .. only just the opposite - or may be the same [ I forget actually haha ]

Terry.
If you had 20 babies, could you guarantee all 20 babies would grow up smooth?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Terry.
If you had 20 babies, could you guarantee all 20 babies would grow up smooth?

Craig.. No more than you can.. or should.. expect to. I do believe the first year is critical - as well as making the adjustments of amount as they grow older - into adulthood.

Many are trying to make this a science -- which we can't because of the inability of controlling the nature of each individual...

 

[Madkins007]

Many are trying to make this a science -- which we can't because of the inability of controlling the nature of each individual...

LOL! Oh, wait... you are serious?

Of COURSE we are trying to make this a science. Experiment, observe, document, see if it is repeatable... We don't know what makes them pyramid for sure, and a lot of people are working on it. We had a lot of theories and most have been shot down over time. OF COURSE there is going to be some individual variation, but if 'X' causes pyramiding, then any pyramided tort will have experienced X in some way.