Oil Filled Radiant Heater Issue

[jaizei]

At the time I worried the house had aluminum wire, but (I think it was Jaizei) assured me it wasn't.

If you've had electricians do work, they should have told you since they probably would have charged more for dealing with the aluminum wire.

 

[dd33]

Okay, but again, I have had this for years now and never had a fire or burnt outlet or burnt plug and run full power on my heater 24/7. Proof is right there.
What you are saying is missing, stops any electrical problem in the shed from shooting back into the house and causing a problem there. But there is no problem so it doesn't matter.

@jaizei is correct, 10 gauge wire would be ok if you had a 30 amp sub panel in your shed containing 15 or 20 amp breakers. (and the conductor length was under ~50 feet).
Having 20 amp outlets directly connected to a 30 amp breaker would be unsafe and against code. If (when) a problem occurred with the heater, the wire to the home would be safe but the heater, or the cord for the heater would be at significantly higher risk of catching fire.

Never suppose to use the heaters this thread is about on extension cords or strips. That's a big fire hazard! Thermostats that are big enough to run the wattage of the heater is fine.

This is generally good advice because most people use undersized extension cords for the wattage of the device at the end and the length of the cord. If the installation is temporary and the extension cord is a heavy enough gauge I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with using an extension cord for a heater.

You can buy ground contact Romex cable and make your own extension cord. 14 gauge solid wire should suffice for what you need. Or buy a 12 gauge extension cord. The last ground contact Romex I bought had a yellow protection cover instead of the normal white cover. The reason for getting a heavier wire extension cord is because they are braided wire not solid copper like the Romex.

12 awg indoor romex is yellow, 14awg is white. Underground rated NM cable is generally gray for all gauges. Indoor (yellow) romex should only be used indoors in a house, it should never get wet because it has paper inside of it. I think using NM cable in a night house is too risky, rats are as attracted to chewing it as they are to taking up residence in your night house. Stick to wire in conduit or armored cable where appropriate.

 

[dd33]

1 more thing before I go Full Get S^&T Done mode.....

Yes this is just what I was going to say ... maybe ....
Any time I am running power further than 50 feet from breaker (This means actual wire length not physical length) I up (lower actually) the gauge. Such as not use 10 gauge for 30 amp need but up it to 8 gauge so I know I will avoid "Heat" issues within the wire itself. It takes power to get power and that process causes heat, ALWAYS ... it is just a matter of how much heat. If you want to avoid this in wiring, overkill is the only way to go. This is an answer to your question about 15 amp on 20 vs. 20 on 30 @jaizei. This is why I ask about your "real world" experience vs. google. A 15 amp outlet can let up to 20 amps go through it for small (micro seconds) without tripping, burning or any other problem. But a 15 amp outlet can not handle the heat that 20 amps outlets can ... the actual outlet. So using 15 amp outlets with high draw devices is a no no in my world, using a 20 amp outlet with a 30 amp breaker doesn't mean more heat.

Increasing the conductor size with the length of the cable isn't just a matter of overkill for the cable itself but for the safety of the device at the end. The longer the conductor the more the voltage drops at the end of it. Example: attempting to run a 1500 watt, heater on a 100 foot 14awg cord would see a ~7% voltage drop. The heater would be operating at ~107volts instead of 115, likely shortening the lifespan of an already junk heater.

 

[SinLA]

Ok folks, so this is my heater and my outlets are 15 amps. I do not use these with extension cords, only plugged into the wall.

In the middle you can see there are two switches for heat level. Do I need to be worried if I have both switches flipped to on?

I don't think this is the exact model, but pretty close, for details on it: https://www.1bid.us/auction/47/item...ks-1500w-good-condition-7w-x-14d-x-26h-75550/

just want to make sure I'm not doing something risky by using it?

 

[dd33]

Ok folks, so this is my heater and my outlets are 15 amps. I do not use these with extension cords, only plugged into the wall.

In the middle you can see there are two switches for heat level. Do I need to be worried if I have both switches flipped to on?

I don't think this is the exact model, but pretty close, for details on it: https://www.1bid.us/auction/47/item...ks-1500w-good-condition-7w-x-14d-x-26h-75550/

just want to make sure I'm not doing something risky by using it?

If the heater is 1500 watts and the voltage at your outlet is 115-120v, you would be drawing 12.5 to 13amps. You shouldn't really load a circuit beyond 80% of its rated capacity so a 15 amp circuit should have no more than 12 amps of continuous load on it.

Even if you have nothing on that circuit other than the heater, I still wouldn't use it. Look for something in the 1000 watt range if you can.

 

[SinLA]

If the heater is 1500 watts and the voltage at your outlet is 115-120v, you would be drawing 12.5 to 13amps. You shouldn't really load a circuit beyond 80% of its rated capacity so a 15 amp circuit should have no more than 12 amps of continuous load on it.

Even if you have nothing on that circuit other than the heater, I still wouldn't use it. Look for something in the 1000 watt range if you can.

Wow, ok thanks, that's a huge bummer, I've had it for decades. if it were to be used with only one of those buttons on (ie: the "min" button) would that make a difference?

 

[dd33]

I couldn't find a manual for it so I don't know how many watts each of the settings are. Maybe one is 1000 and one is 500w? Technically you should be fine using one or the other but not both. Turning on both wouldn't be a disaster as long as the breaker was functioning and there were no hidden issues with your wiring and nothing else was plugged into the circuit.

I take that back, turning on both could be a disaster for the tortoise if it tripped the breaker in the middle of the night.

 

[SinLA]

I couldn't find a manual for it so I don't know how many watts each of the settings are. Maybe one is 1000 and one is 500w? Technically you should be fine using one or the other but not both. Turning on both wouldn't be a disaster as long as the breaker was functioning and there were no hidden issues with your wiring and nothing else was plugged into the circuit.

I take that back, turning on both could be a disaster for the tortoise if it tripped the breaker in the middle of the night.

Fortunately I no longer use it for my tortoise. I really didn't use it at all for like 10 years, but used it last year for my tortoise, and now don't need it. I use it for myself occasionally.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

You can buy ground contact Romex cable and make your own extension cord. 14 gauge solid wire should suffice for what you need. Or buy a 12 gauge extension cord. The last ground contact Romex I bought had a yellow protection cover instead of the normal white cover. The reason for getting a heavier wire extension cord is because they are braided wire not solid copper like the Romex.

Thank you I do have the heavier extension cords. I'll make sure to grab a few more.

 

[jaizei]

Ok folks, so this is my heater and my outlets are 15 amps. I do not use these with extension cords, only plugged into the wall.

In the middle you can see there are two switches for heat level. Do I need to be worried if I have both switches flipped to on?

I don't think this is the exact model, but pretty close, for details on it: https://www.1bid.us/auction/47/item...ks-1500w-good-condition-7w-x-14d-x-26h-75550/

just want to make sure I'm not doing something risky by using it?

It might expose any (future) problem that is already there that you don't know about, but won't create something completely new.

I know the 15 amp outlets in my house are fairly new (maybe 10 years), and wired correctly/no loose connections; a 1500 watt heater doesn't concern me.

Increasing the conductor size with the length of the cable isn't just a matter of overkill for the cable itself but for the safety of the device at the end. The longer the conductor the more the voltage drops at the end of it. Example: attempting to run a 1500 watt, heater on a 100 foot 14awg cord would see a ~7% voltage drop. The heater would be operating at ~107volts instead of 115, likely shortening the lifespan of an already junk heater.

tbf, if the heater was operating at 107v, it would be down to 12 amps and 80% of the 15 amp circuit

 

[jaizei]

Thank you I do have the heavier extension cords. I'll make sure to grab a few more.

3/4 pvc. only has to be done once, and if you ever need to expand or add to it, the wire can be replaced. Depending on how far it is, could make sense to start with more than 1 circuit.

 

[dd33]

tbf, if the heater was operating at 107v, it would be down to 12 amps and 80% of the 15 amp circuit

I think you have the math backwards, or maybe I do. If you tried to run a 1500watt heater on a long conductor run that dropped the voltage down to 107v, you would be drawing 14 amps, not 12. That is assuming the heater would run ok at 107v. A simple heater would probably be fine but if it had any circuit boards it might not be happy.

 

[jaizei]

I think you have the math backwards, or maybe I do. If you tried to run a 1500watt heater on a long conductor run that dropped the voltage down to 107v, you would be drawing 14 amps, not 12. That is assuming the heater would run ok at 107v. A simple heater would probably be fine but if it had any circuit boards it might not be happy.

[(107/115)^2 x 1500]/107

12.136 rounds down to 12 amps

 

[dd33]

watts / volts = amps

 

[jaizei]

watts / volts = amps

electric (resistance) heat has a set resistance so it doesn't work like that.

give me a minute and i'll post a picture showing it.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

3/4 pvc. only has to be done once, and if you ever need to expand or add to it, the wire can be replaced. Depending on how far it is, could make sense to start with more than 1 circuit.

Thank you

 

[jaizei]

I only had a 1200w heater so I used that, and it's 120v so I used a variac to get the voltage close to that so it'd start near nameplate (was 125v coming in). pitstop at 115v than went down to 111.6v to simulate 7% voltage drop from 120v. Heater plugged into Hopi meter plugged into variac

 

[dd33]

I guess I’ve been over simplifying it amd have some studying to do. Thank you.

 

[Cathie G]

If the heater is 1500 watts and the voltage at your outlet is 115-120v, you would be drawing 12.5 to 13amps. You shouldn't really load a circuit beyond 80% of its rated capacity so a 15 amp circuit should have no more than 12 amps of continuous load on it.

Even if you have nothing on that circuit other than the heater, I still wouldn't use it. Look for something in the 1000 watt range if you can.

But there's 2 buttons on those oil filled heaters. Then a dial that works for the low medium and high settings. What if you only use the low or medium button but not use both at the same time? Never the high setting with both? Which I never have because I've never needed to. They're efficient even at the lowest setting most times.

 

[dd33]

But there's 2 buttons on those oil filled heaters. Then a dial that works for the low medium and high settings. What if you only use the low or medium button but not use both at the same time? Never the high setting with both? Which I never have because I've never needed to. They're efficient even at the lowest setting most times.

I don't know the answer to that question. I only use one mini radiant heater and it is 700 watts max. I would guess that the settings for the two switch models aren't the same across all brands. A quick google search pulled up a few that are 600 watts on one switch and 900 watts on the other. So I suppose Low would be one switch on and 600 watts, medium would be the other switch on and 900 watts, high would be both switches on and 1500 watts.