Newbie here! Sulcata Tortoises

[Mrsduffy21502]

Hey tortoise lovers!! I am Arica and my husband and I recently bought 2 Sulcata Tortoise hatchlings. They hatched September 5th 2022 and we brought them home Oct 4th. We bought the Magshion Wooden Reptile House from Chewy. I did substrate as a mix of Zoo Med ReptiSoil Reptile Soil, Zoo Med Premium Repti Bark Natural Fir Reptile Bedding, and Eco Earth (this was mixed and extra put to the side) Hide also has Exo Terra Forest Plume Moss for humidity. I will be purchasing isopods and springtails (and Josh's Frogs Charcoal) as a clean up crew to keep the enclosure and the tortoises clean and ensure the lowest maintenance. I bought and have been using the following lighting MCLANZOO 75W Reptile Heat Lamp Bulb/Light, UVA Basking Spot Heat Lamp and REPTI ZOO T5 HO UVB Lighting Combo Kit, Terrarium Hood Comes with Desert 10.0 UVB T5 Lamp (24W) for 12 hrs a day. They are soaked daily for about 15 mins and have pooped a few times but not daily. They are also given fresh water multiple times a day. So far they are only wanting to eat romaine lettuce. I have offered fresh timothy hay, grated squash, cucumber pieces and carrot shavings with not a bite eaten. I also tried softened Mazuri Tortoise LS (Low Starch) Food but they wont even touch that. Any recommendations on other greens or veggies I can try that may help. We are also going to grow and buy some plants to change it up for them. I also have Zoo Med Reptile Calcium with Vitamin D3 coming. Please guys don't tear me apart I have done so much research but would like to hear from owners that can lead me in the best way for my babies!

 

[wellington]

Boy, wish you had found us before buying. First tortoises, specially sulcata should not be kept in pairs. You will need another enclosure soon. They also need a closed chamber to keep humidity at 80% temps at 80F day and night and basking at 95-100.
Coil and mercury vapor bulbs should not be used incase you have any.
Please read the caresheet for sulcatas and the Closed Chamber thread.
Babies usually won't eat hay. Veggies aren't the best to feed either and never fruit. Things like mulberry leaf, grape leaf, hibiscus leaf and flower, dandelion greens, weeds, cactus pads etc. Grocery greens can be spring mix, radicchio, mustard greens, collard greens, endive. Natural diet shoukd be chosen over store diet. Romaine can be added but never one thing as a diet. The bigger the variety the better.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Welcome to TFO! I'm curious why you have a separate UVA source, or did I read that wrong? Torts really don't need UVA.

 

[wellington]

Thread 'The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...se-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181497/

Thread 'Closed "Chambers"' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

 

[wellington]

Thread 'For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Mrsduffy21502]

Boy, wish you had found us before buying. First tortoises, specially sulcata should not be kept in pairs. You will need another enclosure soon. They also need a closed chamber to keep humidity at 80% temps at 80F day and night and basking at 95-100.
Coil and mercury vapor bulbs should not be used incase you have any.
Please read the caresheet for sulcatas and the Closed Chamber thread.
Babies usually won't eat hay. Veggies aren't the best to feed either and never fruit. Things like mulberry leaf, grape leaf, hibiscus leaf and flower, dandelion greens, weeds, cactus pads etc. Grocery greens can be spring mix, radicchio, mustard greens, collard greens, endive. Natural diet shoukd be chosen over store diet. Romaine can be added but never one thing as a diet. The bigger the variety the better.

Thank you for the new info. I have cactus pad coming and we plan to get other fresh garden grown greens from my cousins garden (no pesticides) and we will be growing some things at our home. They do have a closed chamber and a basking light but I am going up to a larger wattage as its been in the low 90's with the one I currently have. Do you think the bioactive substrate is good for the indoor enclosure? Now off to the care sheets I go. Thank you again. New knowledge is always appreciated.

 

[Mrsduffy21502]

Welcome to TFO! I'm curious why you have a separate UVA source, or did I read that wrong? Torts really don't need UVA.

It is a uva/basking light. So I was using for the basking light part. Thank you I am happy to be here and learn and share all I can.

 

[Karen(pebbles)]

hi and welcome

 

[Mrsduffy21502]

hi and welcome

Thank you. I am so happy to be here.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Welcome to TFO & Sully ownership. I read your info quickly, but I’m not seeing what you are using as a 24x7 source of heat to ensure your overall ambient temps of 80f are maintained?

Good luck. You have already received a ton of good info to follow-up on.

 

[wellington]

Thank you for the new info. I have cactus pad coming and we plan to get other fresh garden grown greens from my cousins garden (no pesticides) and we will be growing some things at our home. They do have a closed chamber and a basking light but I am going up to a larger wattage as its been in the low 90's with the one I currently have. Do you think the bioactive substrate is good for the indoor enclosure? Now off to the care sheets I go. Thank you again. New knowledge is always appreciated.

I have never used bioactive substrate but I don't know why it would be a problem. See if others might know about it with hatchlings. @Tom

 

[Tom]

Hey tortoise lovers!! I am Arica and my husband and I recently bought 2 Sulcata Tortoise hatchlings. They hatched September 5th 2022 and we brought them home Oct 4th. We bought the Magshion Wooden Reptile House from Chewy. I did substrate as a mix of Zoo Med ReptiSoil Reptile Soil, Zoo Med Premium Repti Bark Natural Fir Reptile Bedding, and Eco Earth (this was mixed and extra put to the side) Hide also has Exo Terra Forest Plume Moss for humidity. I will be purchasing isopods and springtails (and Josh's Frogs Charcoal) as a clean up crew to keep the enclosure and the tortoises clean and ensure the lowest maintenance. I bought and have been using the following lighting MCLANZOO 75W Reptile Heat Lamp Bulb/Light, UVA Basking Spot Heat Lamp and REPTI ZOO T5 HO UVB Lighting Combo Kit, Terrarium Hood Comes with Desert 10.0 UVB T5 Lamp (24W) for 12 hrs a day. They are soaked daily for about 15 mins and have pooped a few times but not daily. They are also given fresh water multiple times a day. So far they are only wanting to eat romaine lettuce. I have offered fresh timothy hay, grated squash, cucumber pieces and carrot shavings with not a bite eaten. I also tried softened Mazuri Tortoise LS (Low Starch) Food but they wont even touch that. Any recommendations on other greens or veggies I can try that may help. We are also going to grow and buy some plants to change it up for them. I also have Zoo Med Reptile Calcium with Vitamin D3 coming. Please guys don't tear me apart I have done so much research but would like to hear from owners that can lead me in the best way for my babies!

Hello and welcome.

Prepare to be frustrated and upset, but please know that ALL of my words are intended to help you have a successful happy tortoise keeping experience.

SOOOOOO many people do exactly what you have done, and have been in the same predicament that you are in. People do months of research. They read site after site, watch videos, talk to pet store people, etc... This is great. This is exactly what people should do before buying an animal. But there is a problem: All of that info is wrong. Its been wrong for decades, and it just gets parroted generation after generation. I know. I did it that way for 22 years and could not figure out why it didn't work. After much personal research around the country and around the world, and over a decade of experimentation, trial and error, and personal experience with over 1000 tortoise babies of many species, a few of us began to put the puzzle pieces together and solve this mystery. Most vets, breeders, sellers, keepers and Internet personalities still do not know this, and continue to tell people the same wrong info and sell people the same wrong products. Most of them don't know better. Some of them choose to remain willfully ignorant. Some of them just want to make a sale.

With that in mind, let me point out the mistakes you've made that are going to be a serious problem. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if no one tells you what is wrong, then you can't fix it, and your babies will pay the price. This is all intend to HELP, not hurt.
1. That is not a closed chamber. The top is wide open. Those tortoise enclosures are not suitable for any tortoise species at any time. They are too open for babies and too small for temperate adults that can handle room temps and dryness. You need a proper closed chamber enclosure with the heat and lights inside. Trying to keep that warm and humid is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. It just doesn't work.
2. No moss. They will eat it and it can cause impaction.
3. No charcoal. Same as above.
4. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. It is potentially toxic or dangerous.
5. No spot bulbs. This will overly desiccate the carapace and cause pyramiding. Use only flood bulbs for basking.
6. Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. Its bad for both of them. Groups can sometimes work, but not pairs.
7. Most breeders and sellers do not start these babies correctly. One of the many mistakes they make is failure to introduce the right foods starting on day one. They feed them lettuce and grocery store greens because its easy. The babies learn during this time what is food and what isn't. All those good items you are offering are not seen as food. You will have to take the time to introduce all those food slowly in tiny amounts mixed in with favorites. The process takes months, and can be very frustrating, but it is worth the time and effort. In time your baby will eat everything if you take the time to introduce these things now.
8. Hay is for adults. Babies can't eat it. When the time comes for hay, around 12 inches, Timothy hay is the wrong hay. You'll want orchard grass hay, or Bermuda, but that is way down the road.
9. What about night heat? They need it dark at night, but still warm. You need a CHE of RHP set on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps above 80 day and night.
10. Most tortoises don't care for the LS at first. Try to get some of the original (5M21 is the code). Most tortoises like that one much better. The LS is a good food, but it takes time to introduce and get them to like it.

I'm sorry to be laying all this on you so abruptly, but your babies don't have time for you to figure all this out the hard way. We will never tear you apart here. You have gone to great effort to do the right thing and that is both admirable and respectable. Unfortunately, like almost everyone, you did not know that the commonly offered care info is all wrong. You have now found the right info, and we will help you implement it all if you want.

Questions are welcome!

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Hello and welcome.

Prepare to be frustrated and upset, but please know that ALL of my words are intended to help you have a successful happy tortoise keeping experience.

SOOOOOO many people do exactly what you have done, and have been in the same predicament that you are in. People do months of research. They read site after site, watch videos, talk to pet store people, etc... This is great. This is exactly what people should do before buying an animal. But there is a problem: All of that info is wrong. Its been wrong for decades, and it just gets parroted generation after generation. I know. I did it that way for 22 years and could not figure out why it didn't work. After much personal research around the country and around the world, and over a decade of experimentation, trial and error, and personal experience with over 1000 tortoise babies of many species, a few of us began to put the puzzle pieces together and solve this mystery. Most vets, breeders, sellers, keepers and Internet personalities still do not know this, and continue to tell people the same wrong info and sell people the same wrong products. Most of them don't know better. Some of them choose to remain willfully ignorant. Some of them just want to make a sale.

With that in mind, let me point out the mistakes you've made that are going to be a serious problem. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if no one tells you what is wrong, then you can't fix it, and your babies will pay the price. This is all intend to HELP, not hurt.
1. That is not a closed chamber. The top is wide open. Those tortoise enclosures are not suitable for any tortoise species at any time. They are too open for babies and too small for temperate adults that can handle room temps and dryness. You need a proper closed chamber enclosure with the heat and lights inside. Trying to keep that warm and humid is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. It just doesn't work.
2. No moss. They will eat it and it can cause impaction.
3. No charcoal. Same as above.
4. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. It is potentially toxic or dangerous.
5. No spot bulbs. This will overly desiccate the carapace and cause pyramiding. Use only flood bulbs for basking.
6. Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. Its bad for both of them. Groups can sometimes work, but not pairs.
7. Most breeders and sellers do not start these babies correctly. One of the many mistakes they make is failure to introduce the right foods starting on day one. They feed them lettuce and grocery store greens because its easy. The babies learn during this time what is food and what isn't. All those good items you are offering are not seen as food. You will have to take the time to introduce all those food slowly in tiny amounts mixed in with favorites. The process takes months, and can be very frustrating, but it is worth the time and effort. In time your baby will eat everything if you take the time to introduce these things now.
8. Hay is for adults. Babies can't eat it. When the time comes for hay, around 12 inches, Timothy hay is the wrong hay. You'll want orchard grass hay, or Bermuda, but that is way down the road.
9. What about night heat? They need it dark at night, but still warm. You need a CHE of RHP set on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps above 80 day and night.
10. Most tortoises don't care for the LS at first. Try to get some of the original (5M21 is the code). Most tortoises like that one much better. The LS is a good food, but it takes time to introduce and get them to like it.

I'm sorry to be laying all this on you so abruptly, but your babies don't have time for you to figure all this out the hard way. We will never tear you apart here. You have gone to great effort to do the right thing and that is both admirable and respectable. Unfortunately, like almost everyone, you did not know that the commonly offered care info is all wrong. You have now found the right info, and we will help you implement it all if you want.

Questions are welcome!

Interesting take on Timothy hay. So it shouldn't be fed at any age? I've never fed mine anything but orchard, but I encounter a LOT of folks who feed Timothy religiously. Curious why you advise against it.

 

[Tom]

Interesting take on Timothy hay. So it shouldn't be fed at any age? I've never fed mine anything but orchard, but I encounter a LOT of folks who feed Timothy religiously. Curious why you advise against it.

It is too stemmy and coarse. Large adults can eat darn near anything, but using Timothy makes it harder to introduce hay to smaller juveniles.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

It is too stemmy and coarse. Large adults can eat darn near anything, but using Timothy makes it harder to introduce hay to smaller juveniles.

Ok....thanks. That makes more sense to me, and exactly what I've been advising others. I was reading your comment like it shouldn't be fed at any age. 😉

 

[Tom]

Ok....thanks. That makes more sense to me, and exactly what I've been advising others. I was reading your comment like it shouldn't be fed at any age. 😉

Like you, after much trial and error, I find orchard grass hay to be the most suitable. I sometimes mix in some Bermuda or teff once in a while too, but I wouldn't consider that necessary.

I prefer to use fresh real growing grass when I can get it!

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Like you, after much trial and error, I find orchard grass hay to be the most suitable. I sometimes mix in some Bermuda or teff once in a while too, but I wouldn't consider that necessary.

I prefer to use fresh real growing grass when I can get it!

Without a doubt! I started growing a mess of corn, escarole, endive and dandelion in my greenhouse in preparation for winter.

 

[Ray--Opo]

Welcome, don't get discouraged with the information you have received. Tom is one of the members that has made the mistakes, researched extensively over the years and has come up with better care for tortoises. I was in the same situation that you are in. For about 3 or 4 months I was doing it all wrong. My information came from a pet store and surfing the internet. It got very confusing and defeating. Finding this forum and sticking with the recommendations. Made life a lot easier and my sully started receiving proper care.
Getting your tort to eat different foods can be challenging. Sometimes you need to use tough love to accomplish their eating habits. Hang in there and asked questions, we all are here to give you help. I noticed you live directly west of me. Florida makes it a lot easier to raise sulcata's.

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome!

 

[CJ Wilson]

Interesting take on Timothy hay. So it shouldn't be fed at any age? I've never fed mine anything but orchard, but I encounter a LOT of folks who feed Timothy religiously. Curious why you advise against it.

Also new here!... Trying my best to take care of two sulcata's whose owner could no longer take care of them.
Researching has consumed most of my life for the last 6 months.. and leaves me confused a lot of times!
One is about 10 inches long and one is only five or six inches long. They are hold up in their hidey hole right now for the night and I'm not going to disturb them to measure exactly. The previous owners always kept them together. Of course I "read" that they could not be together if they were both males.
I've fallen in love with these creatures and trying to provide everything that they need. Gearing up for winter time in Arkansas right now... Only a couple months away!
Right now it is 90 to 100° during the day so I put them outside to graze and soak in partial sun / shade.
I'll continue to research in this forum so as to not be led into ignorance again. Thank you so much for all the info