Newbe needs some pointers with his Russian tort, The Tsar

[RussianTort]

Hey everyone,
I am new to owning torts. I have been reading up a lot on them and I know the basics, what they eat, what they need/require etc, etc. I have some general questions about the Tsar's behavior.

When we were looking at him in the store he was in the corner trying to claw his way out of the (unfortunately) tank they had him in. Naturally, because he was the most rambunctious we chose to have him. I took him home and put him in a temporary blacked out 40 gallon tank while i built him a 4 foot by 3 foot pen for indoors. The pen has 3 terrains (mulch, sand and a little bit of pebble around his water and food). Unfortunately, the Tsar still sleeps in the corner of the pen, and no matter if he is roaming the yard outside, or inside he always tries to escape. I have been noticing that he has not been eating as much lately. I have the generic food as well as spinach, carrots and weeds that are good for him. his shell looks healthy, and he has no runny nose, he just seems a little depressed. He likes the shade, and I have not seen him basking yet in his light.

I am building him a giant pen for outside with a hideout that he can roam in all day while I am at work. hopefully his negative attitude will change. I dono if this behavior is normal, and like I said he seems healthy, he just sleeps ALOT.
Any suggestions?

 

[Scooter]

Pictures of him and his enclosure would be helpful. That way we could give you pointers on the set up. What are the temps in the enclosure? Does he have a hide? It can take a tort a little while to get adjusted to their new homes so I would leave him alone for a little while and let him get settled in.

 

[RussianTort]

Pictures of him and his enclosure would be helpful. That way we could give you pointers on the set up. What are the temps in the enclosure? Does he have a hide? It can take a tort a little while to get adjusted to their new homes so I would leave him alone for a little while and let him get settled in.

Its hard for me to get a good picture of him... camera stinks and i dont want to move him around to much. Here is him and his indoor pen as best I can get. Its hard to grasp the size of the pen from the picture, but it is much larger than it looks.I realize that he has to adapt to his new home but it is good to bring him outside to roam no?
the temp he is at right now is 80.
The shabby looking box set up is his temporary hide out while i build him a bigger one with a door for me to open and a hole for him to go in. I am a good builder so the sky is the limit.

 

[Scooter]

I would bump up the temp a little and have a warm and cool side so he can pick the temp he wants. How deep is the substrate? It looks like the walls are high enough that you can make the substrate deeper so he can burrow into it. The outside time is good for him but I would maybe hold off on it for a day or two.

 

[Laura]

Try Spring Mix for food.. less spinich..
Give him something to burrow in and less sand also.
Russians Always try to escape.. and they will if they can!

 

[RussianTort]

I would bump up the temp a little and have a warm and cool side so he can pick the temp he wants. How deep is the substrate? It looks like the walls are high enough that you can make the substrate deeper so he can burrow into it. The outside time is good for him but I would maybe hold off on it for a day or two.

the substrate is about 4 inches deep and he burrows himself in the corner. I can bump the temp up. while we are here, how often do you change his substrate? also which is better...
having a UV light and a heat light separate, or is a mercury-vapor bulb just as good?
If he burrows, and stays there for ...days, should I move him or is this natural...
Also have to get him to eat more.

---

Try Spring Mix for food.. less spinich..
Give him something to burrow in and less sand also.
Russians Always try to escape.. and they will if they can!

Is spring mix a brand or literally a mix? details.

---

I would bump up the temp a little and have a warm and cool side so he can pick the temp he wants. How deep is the substrate? It looks like the walls are high enough that you can make the substrate deeper so he can burrow into it. The outside time is good for him but I would maybe hold off on it for a day or two.

the substrate is about 4 inches deep and he burrows himself in the corner. I can bump the temp up. while we are here, how often do you change his substrate? also which is better...
having a UV light and a heat light separate, or is a mercury-vapor bulb just as good?
If he burrows, and stays there for ...days, should I move him or is this natural...
Also have to get him to eat more.

---

Try Spring Mix for food.. less spinich..
Give him something to burrow in and less sand also.
Russians Always try to escape.. and they will if they can!

Is spring mix a brand or literally a mix? details.

---

Just made his common burrowing area half a foot deep. hopefully this works for The Tsar

 

[Yvonne G]

He's probably wild caught, so it will take him a while to acclimate. Spring Mix is a package of mixed baby greens sold in the produce section of the grocery store. Different brands.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

His area looks pretty big and he looks like a baby or a yearling so that might account for him sleeping so much. I also think he's not warm enough. Every morning I would wake him up and plop him in some warm water. After 10 minutes or so put him in front of his food. He should eat then, and stop with the spinach so much. It has properties that bind the calcium to them and then they are simply expelled so his metabolism isn't utilizing the calcium. A small amount of spinach is alright but not as a main addition to his food...welcome to the forum I'm sure you will enjoy it here...

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the group! A MVB is the best bulb on the market. Some are not any better than the tube UVBs, but most are. The best out there are T-Rex Active UV Heat and Mega Ray. You can only buy them online. They last a year and need a hood fixture with a ceramic socket and a lamp stand. Buy a highly accurate thermometer like a temp gun (PE1, $25). You want to aim for a temperature gradient, such as 70 to 95 F. You want hides in each temperature zone, at least three. You don't need any lights at night ever. You want night heat if the house temp falls below 60/65 F.

You basically don't want big open spaces in the enclosure. You have the water dish, the food area (a slate tile works awesome and will wear down the beak & nails), many hides, and maybe some rocks and a pile of substrate to add some hills for some change. By breaking up the line of sight the tort thinks the enclosure is bigger. Temperatures are HUGE in tort care. I agree with Maggie and think your temps aren't right, or your tort isn't using the higher temp areas. If there isn't a hide in a warm area near the basking spot, they will just stay in the cold hide. They take safety over warmth or food. Their tummy needs to be 85F to eat. Make sure you get a tort vet to check him out and do a fecal test for parasites.

Here are photos of spring mix so you know what to look for: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=spring+mix&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g5g-m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= You can get organic for the same cost typically. Since torts eat 100% greens, pesticides can affect them more than us. I feed my tort 98% organic. If you can get him chemical free weeds, that can be the whole diet if there is enough variety. Those are ideal! I would never feed spinach or carrots. Look up oxalic acid on the forum and how it binds to calcium and can cause stones. Some greens that are good and lower in content than spinach are dandelion, mustard, radish, and collard. Turnip greens have basically no oxalic acid. I buy spring mix all the time, and 1-2 other greens a week, rotating through a list to get variety over time. About 55% spring mix, 40% of the other greens, and 5% treats like pumpkin, butternut squash, cactus pads, Mazuri Tortoise Diet, and Grassland Tortoise Food.

You want to sprinkle pure calcium over the food every other day. He should eat a loose pile of greens almost as big as he is once he settles in and your husbandry is correct. I would make the substrate twice as deep as he is long if your enclosure allows for that. Make sure when the tort climbs up on any cage furnishings against walls, he still can't even begin to reach the top. Russians are escape artists! If I pick up the messes daily, I change out the substrate every few months. I have substrate so deep and such a large enclosure, that much of it doesn't even get touched, so I don't replace those parts. I'll basically skim off the top layer and the parts that get burrowed in.

I would bring him outside after a week or so once he's settled in better. Make an outdoor enclosure no more than 2-3 times the size of his indoor enclosure (cinder blocks or whatever), so when he has to go back inside it isn't such a shock of a small space. Have some hides, and a water dish if he'll be out there more than a couple hours. Do you live in a warm area? Adult Russians can live outside 100% of the time in warmer places. You can even build a little heated hut for cooler times. They really thrive outside. Not sure where you live...

I think your problem with the basking is you likely don't have a hide near the basking area. You need a hide near the basking area, the food, the coolest spot, and probably another one in a medium temp. You can use fake plants, plant pot, timothy hay pile, half log, cardboard box, wood box, plastic container, etc. I love shopping at Michael's craft store with coupons from the paper or online for fake plants and river rocks. I stick them in the substrate or tape them to a wall to make a nice hide that doesn't take up much floor space. I buy slate tiles for $2 at home improvement stores. Do you have a water dish? I really can't make out what everything is in the enclosure, just that there is too much open space and not enough hides. What type of substrate?

---

How long is his Straight Carapace Length (longest length of the shell, not curved, such as putting a metal/wood ruler under the tort)? From the size of the can I guess 4 inches or so. Not hatchling/yearling if from Petco or similar--wild caught adult.

 

[RussianTort]

Welcome to the group! A MVB is the best bulb on the market. Some are not any better than the tube UVBs, but most are. The best out there are T-Rex Active UV Heat and Mega Ray. You can only buy them online. They last a year and need a hood fixture with a ceramic socket and a lamp stand. Buy a highly accurate thermometer like a temp gun (PE1, $25). You want to aim for a temperature gradient, such as 70 to 95 F. You want hides in each temperature zone, at least three. You don't need any lights at night ever. You want night heat if the house temp falls below 60/65 F.

You basically don't want big open spaces in the enclosure. You have the water dish, the food area (a slate tile works awesome and will wear down the beak & nails), many hides, and maybe some rocks and a pile of substrate to add some hills for some change. By breaking up the line of sight the tort thinks the enclosure is bigger. Temperatures are HUGE in tort care. I agree with Maggie and think your temps aren't right, or your tort isn't using the higher temp areas. If there isn't a hide in a warm area near the basking spot, they will just stay in the cold hide. They take safety over warmth or food. Their tummy needs to be 85F to eat. Make sure you get a tort vet to check him out and do a fecal test for parasites.

Here are photos of spring mix so you know what to look for: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=spring+mix&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g5g-m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= You can get organic for the same cost typically. Since torts eat 100% greens, pesticides can affect them more than us. I feed my tort 98% organic. If you can get him chemical free weeds, that can be the whole diet if there is enough variety. Those are ideal! I would never feed spinach or carrots. Look up oxalic acid on the forum and how it binds to calcium and can cause stones. Some greens that are good and lower in content than spinach are dandelion, mustard, radish, and collard. Turnip greens have basically no oxalic acid. I buy spring mix all the time, and 1-2 other greens a week, rotating through a list to get variety over time. About 55% spring mix, 40% of the other greens, and 5% treats like pumpkin, butternut squash, cactus pads, Mazuri Tortoise Diet, and Grassland Tortoise Food.

You want to sprinkle pure calcium over the food every other day. He should eat a loose pile of greens almost as big as he is once he settles in and your husbandry is correct. I would make the substrate twice as deep as he is long if your enclosure allows for that. Make sure when the tort climbs up on any cage furnishings against walls, he still can't even begin to reach the top. Russians are escape artists! If I pick up the messes daily, I change out the substrate every few months. I have substrate so deep and such a large enclosure, that much of it doesn't even get touched, so I don't replace those parts. I'll basically skim off the top layer and the parts that get burrowed in.

I would bring him outside after a week or so once he's settled in better. Make an outdoor enclosure no more than 2-3 times the size of his indoor enclosure (cinder blocks or whatever), so when he has to go back inside it isn't such a shock of a small space. Have some hides, and a water dish if he'll be out there more than a couple hours. Do you live in a warm area? Adult Russians can live outside 100% of the time in warmer places. You can even build a little heated hut for cooler times. They really thrive outside. Not sure where you live...

I think your problem with the basking is you likely don't have a hide near the basking area. You need a hide near the basking area, the food, the coolest spot, and probably another one in a medium temp. You can use fake plants, plant pot, timothy hay pile, half log, cardboard box, wood box, plastic container, etc. I love shopping at Michael's craft store with coupons from the paper or online for fake plants and river rocks. I stick them in the substrate or tape them to a wall to make a nice hide that doesn't take up much floor space. I buy slate tiles for $2 at home improvement stores. Do you have a water dish? I really can't make out what everything is in the enclosure, just that there is too much open space and not enough hides. What type of substrate?

---

How long is his Straight Carapace Length (longest length of the shell, not curved, such as putting a metal/wood ruler under the tort)? From the size of the can I guess 4 inches or so. Not hatchling/yearling if from Petco or similar--wild caught adult.

---

Thanks everyone,
I am going to fill his substrate more as well as build him a wooden hide and a slate hide. I think you are right michaels will have a bunch of stuff that he can use. Also, ill pick up the calcium and spring mix. I am also going to start building his outside pen. Again, thank you and I will try to take pictures as best I can at the end of the day. I hope he is happier than he was at the pet store.

 

[RussianTort]

Welcome to the group! A MVB is the best bulb on the market. Some are not any better than the tube UVBs, but most are. The best out there are T-Rex Active UV Heat and Mega Ray. You can only buy them online. They last a year and need a hood fixture with a ceramic socket and a lamp stand. Buy a highly accurate thermometer like a temp gun (PE1, $25). You want to aim for a temperature gradient, such as 70 to 95 F. You want hides in each temperature zone, at least three. You don't need any lights at night ever. You want night heat if the house temp falls below 60/65 F.

You basically don't want big open spaces in the enclosure. You have the water dish, the food area (a slate tile works awesome and will wear down the beak & nails), many hides, and maybe some rocks and a pile of substrate to add some hills for some change. By breaking up the line of sight the tort thinks the enclosure is bigger. Temperatures are HUGE in tort care. I agree with Maggie and think your temps aren't right, or your tort isn't using the higher temp areas. If there isn't a hide in a warm area near the basking spot, they will just stay in the cold hide. They take safety over warmth or food. Their tummy needs to be 85F to eat. Make sure you get a tort vet to check him out and do a fecal test for parasites.

Here are photos of spring mix so you know what to look for: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=spring+mix&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g5g-m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= You can get organic for the same cost typically. Since torts eat 100% greens, pesticides can affect them more than us. I feed my tort 98% organic. If you can get him chemical free weeds, that can be the whole diet if there is enough variety. Those are ideal! I would never feed spinach or carrots. Look up oxalic acid on the forum and how it binds to calcium and can cause stones. Some greens that are good and lower in content than spinach are dandelion, mustard, radish, and collard. Turnip greens have basically no oxalic acid. I buy spring mix all the time, and 1-2 other greens a week, rotating through a list to get variety over time. About 55% spring mix, 40% of the other greens, and 5% treats like pumpkin, butternut squash, cactus pads, Mazuri Tortoise Diet, and Grassland Tortoise Food.

You want to sprinkle pure calcium over the food every other day. He should eat a loose pile of greens almost as big as he is once he settles in and your husbandry is correct. I would make the substrate twice as deep as he is long if your enclosure allows for that. Make sure when the tort climbs up on any cage furnishings against walls, he still can't even begin to reach the top. Russians are escape artists! If I pick up the messes daily, I change out the substrate every few months. I have substrate so deep and such a large enclosure, that much of it doesn't even get touched, so I don't replace those parts. I'll basically skim off the top layer and the parts that get burrowed in.

I would bring him outside after a week or so once he's settled in better. Make an outdoor enclosure no more than 2-3 times the size of his indoor enclosure (cinder blocks or whatever), so when he has to go back inside it isn't such a shock of a small space. Have some hides, and a water dish if he'll be out there more than a couple hours. Do you live in a warm area? Adult Russians can live outside 100% of the time in warmer places. You can even build a little heated hut for cooler times. They really thrive outside. Not sure where you live...

I think your problem with the basking is you likely don't have a hide near the basking area. You need a hide near the basking area, the food, the coolest spot, and probably another one in a medium temp. You can use fake plants, plant pot, timothy hay pile, half log, cardboard box, wood box, plastic container, etc. I love shopping at Michael's craft store with coupons from the paper or online for fake plants and river rocks. I stick them in the substrate or tape them to a wall to make a nice hide that doesn't take up much floor space. I buy slate tiles for $2 at home improvement stores. Do you have a water dish? I really can't make out what everything is in the enclosure, just that there is too much open space and not enough hides. What type of substrate?

---

How long is his Straight Carapace Length (longest length of the shell, not curved, such as putting a metal/wood ruler under the tort)? From the size of the can I guess 4 inches or so. Not hatchling/yearling if from Petco or similar--wild caught adult.

---

Thanks everyone,
I am going to fill his substrate more as well as build him a wooden hide and a slate hide. I think you are right michaels will have a bunch of stuff that he can use. Also, ill pick up the calcium and spring mix. I am also going to start building his outside pen. Again, thank you and I will try to take pictures as best I can at the end of the day. I hope he is happier than he was at the pet store.

---

The tsar got a ton of stuff today. I bought a square slate tab and broke it up and made a natural looking cave. I also built him a house that we call the "Winter Palace" that he can also hide in. He also has more trees, spring mix, calcium and his substrate is much deeper.

---

Welcome to the group! A MVB is the best bulb on the market. Some are not any better than the tube UVBs, but most are. The best out there are T-Rex Active UV Heat and Mega Ray. You can only buy them online. They last a year and need a hood fixture with a ceramic socket and a lamp stand. Buy a highly accurate thermometer like a temp gun (PE1, $25). You want to aim for a temperature gradient, such as 70 to 95 F. You want hides in each temperature zone, at least three. You don't need any lights at night ever. You want night heat if the house temp falls below 60/65 F.

You basically don't want big open spaces in the enclosure. You have the water dish, the food area (a slate tile works awesome and will wear down the beak & nails), many hides, and maybe some rocks and a pile of substrate to add some hills for some change. By breaking up the line of sight the tort thinks the enclosure is bigger. Temperatures are HUGE in tort care. I agree with Maggie and think your temps aren't right, or your tort isn't using the higher temp areas. If there isn't a hide in a warm area near the basking spot, they will just stay in the cold hide. They take safety over warmth or food. Their tummy needs to be 85F to eat. Make sure you get a tort vet to check him out and do a fecal test for parasites.

Here are photos of spring mix so you know what to look for: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=spring+mix&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g5g-m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= You can get organic for the same cost typically. Since torts eat 100% greens, pesticides can affect them more than us. I feed my tort 98% organic. If you can get him chemical free weeds, that can be the whole diet if there is enough variety. Those are ideal! I would never feed spinach or carrots. Look up oxalic acid on the forum and how it binds to calcium and can cause stones. Some greens that are good and lower in content than spinach are dandelion, mustard, radish, and collard. Turnip greens have basically no oxalic acid. I buy spring mix all the time, and 1-2 other greens a week, rotating through a list to get variety over time. About 55% spring mix, 40% of the other greens, and 5% treats like pumpkin, butternut squash, cactus pads, Mazuri Tortoise Diet, and Grassland Tortoise Food.

You want to sprinkle pure calcium over the food every other day. He should eat a loose pile of greens almost as big as he is once he settles in and your husbandry is correct. I would make the substrate twice as deep as he is long if your enclosure allows for that. Make sure when the tort climbs up on any cage furnishings against walls, he still can't even begin to reach the top. Russians are escape artists! If I pick up the messes daily, I change out the substrate every few months. I have substrate so deep and such a large enclosure, that much of it doesn't even get touched, so I don't replace those parts. I'll basically skim off the top layer and the parts that get burrowed in.

I would bring him outside after a week or so once he's settled in better. Make an outdoor enclosure no more than 2-3 times the size of his indoor enclosure (cinder blocks or whatever), so when he has to go back inside it isn't such a shock of a small space. Have some hides, and a water dish if he'll be out there more than a couple hours. Do you live in a warm area? Adult Russians can live outside 100% of the time in warmer places. You can even build a little heated hut for cooler times. They really thrive outside. Not sure where you live...

I think your problem with the basking is you likely don't have a hide near the basking area. You need a hide near the basking area, the food, the coolest spot, and probably another one in a medium temp. You can use fake plants, plant pot, timothy hay pile, half log, cardboard box, wood box, plastic container, etc. I love shopping at Michael's craft store with coupons from the paper or online for fake plants and river rocks. I stick them in the substrate or tape them to a wall to make a nice hide that doesn't take up much floor space. I buy slate tiles for $2 at home improvement stores. Do you have a water dish? I really can't make out what everything is in the enclosure, just that there is too much open space and not enough hides. What type of substrate?

---

How long is his Straight Carapace Length (longest length of the shell, not curved, such as putting a metal/wood ruler under the tort)? From the size of the can I guess 4 inches or so. Not hatchling/yearling if from Petco or similar--wild caught adult.

---

Thanks everyone,
I am going to fill his substrate more as well as build him a wooden hide and a slate hide. I think you are right michaels will have a bunch of stuff that he can use. Also, ill pick up the calcium and spring mix. I am also going to start building his outside pen. Again, thank you and I will try to take pictures as best I can at the end of the day. I hope he is happier than he was at the pet store.

---

Hey guys,
the Tsar got alot of new stuff today. I bought a slate slab and broke it up and made a natural looking cave with it. I also built a wooden home that he was dubbed the "Winter Palace" his substrate is now much deeper, and I bought him the spring mix and calcium, along with more plants to populate is home with. THEN I built his outside pen. I made sure there were alot of weeds that he can eat as well as alot of room. I am not going to bring him out there for another day or so. Here are some pictures of his newly populated indoor pen. I have attached a picture of the Winter Palace, and his slate cave " The Kremlin".
Another question...
I have his generic food in a little dish, and his green leaf and calcium on another but he keeps walking over it. He doesnt seem to be eating as much as he should be. He has to get use to all the new stuff and the pen i guess.

Thanks guys, he seems alot happier now.

 

[MichelleCarrigan78]

This thread looks like it has ALL the info a new tort owner could ever possibly need! I'm going to have to print it or something so I can come back to it!

 

[ChiKat]

Good changes so far!!
Are you using sand? I would replace that immediately. I use organic top soil mixed with a little coconut coir.
I have found that the sand sticks to them and can be irritating. I used to mix sand with Nelson's coco coir but it irritated his eyes.