New Tortoises :) Advice?

[AWTorts]

Recently a friend of ours decided he couldn't take care of his tortoise anymore. So, we decided to adopt. Since we were already adopting we decided to find her a friend We have had them for about 3 days.

Now we have two russian tortoises!
-Jones (male) who is about 5 years old. Currently pretty shy hasn't eaten anything yet, but I understand this is from a big change. When should I start to worry?

-Wilma (female) fully grown, not sure how old. She is super upbeat, and will eat right out of my hand.
*names pending*

I have been told that some tortoises will be bullies, but so far they like to lay in the heat together!


I want to make sure that they are getting the proper care they need and was hoping for some tips, tricks, and advice!

Schedule:
-Feedings: 2-3 times a week with mixed leafy greens (so far kale, soon to switch with romaine)
I am currently growing dandelions.
curious about prickly pear cactus? Are they hard to grow?
I have a cuttlebone in there for calcium. Will they eat the cuttlebone if they need calcium?

As far as their diet, I know variety is key! I have some supplements that came with her including calcium and multivitamins. Should I sprinkle the multivitamins every time I feed? or closer to once a month? Or do I even need them?

Soaks: 2-3 times a week. Last time I filled it up to about their chin when their heads are down. Is that to much?

Table:
3x5 pallet sized *picture attached*
substrate: coconut and top soil
should I spray the topsoil every so often to keep it moist for the tortoises? from my understanding they like some humidity. I would probably only spray it under the large corner hideout.
2 hideouts
2 waterbowls
various rocks
2 slate rocks
100W Powersun UV bulb with deep dome 100W fixture
Temperature?
I have heard that 90-95 degrees F under the light and 70-72 F on the other side of the table is appropriate?

Any other tips you have are much appreciated!

 

[JoesMum]

I am afraid that pretty much all tortoises will be bullies, especially Russians. They do need to be kept separately.

Bullying can be mental or physical and physical bullying in Russians can be bloody. Mental bullying is worse, because it's often missed until it's too late. Cuddling up together, is the dominant one trying to get the best spot and claim rights to all territory. Feeding together means the dominant one is trying to make sure the subordinate one gets less food.

Please plan now for separating them permanently. Russians are active torts that want their own space. They love to climb and dig. They don't want, need or like company and thry don't get lonely. They will need a minimum of 4' x8' each.

Grouos of 3 or more torts of a similar size can work in large putdoor enclosures with plenty of sight barriers, but there are no guarantees. Don't try to make a trio unless you have room for 3 enclosures!

 

[JoesMum]

Please read the following:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[Jodie]

Welcome to the forum. You need separate enclosures. Tortoises are solitary and territorial. The shy one is being submissive. The dominant tortoise, even without outward signs of aggression, will stress her to death.
Your setup otherwise sounds good.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello
bulling isn't biting kicking ! Some times it's looks , controlling food dish ,and or the water dish . So you really don't know until one gets bigger then the other ! And torts don't want company , they don't Evan take care of there baby's .

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. Are you still there?

Read those threads!

Those water bowls are literally killers. Remove it immediately and take it back to the person who sold it to you. They are great for snakes and lizards, but they are drowning pools for tortoises. Use a terra cotta plant saucer sunk into the soil instead.

 

[Lyn W]

HI and Welcome There's a lot to learn but this is a great place for advice and plenty of people to point you in the right direction.
Just to add;
Make sure your topsoil doesn't have any chemicals, fertilisers or little white bits in it
Keep an eye on the deep dome shade it could make your bulb overheat and burn out.
Your table will lose moisture, so keep substrate moist but not soaking wet - moist + warm = healthy tort, moist + cold = sick tort
What are your night temps? If lower than the caresheet suggests you may need to use a che for night heat.

 

[AWTorts]

Thanks for the links, I had no idea!

I will keep a close eye on them. Actually, as soon as I posted, I walked into the other room and the little tortoise (male) was eating. Honestly, I think he is more afraid of me than anything. I haven't seen anything aggressive yet. The female is much larger than the male, which I know is normal. Typical scenarios consist of female laying somewhere and then the smaller tortoise will come and chill. They just stay together, sometimes will look at each other, but that is it really.

We are hoping to create a bigger enclosure soon anyway, but needed something quick and had an extra pallet lying around.

Both tortoises used to be kept in small glass enclosures. So I figured this was at least better.

What are actual signs of territorial aggression? mental bullying? Anyone seen a good accurate video about it?

I will work on getting another larger table set up, pronto.

I have also read that adding another female would help. *provided that I build a much larger table* Is this accurate?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Thank you !

 

[Jodie]

Groups can work, yes. Signs of aggression include laying in the same general area.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

It's easy to watch bullying and dominance issues at work and think you're seeing something else. That one likes a particular hide spot and claims it early in the day - nope, she's hiding from the others. They like to hang out together & enjoy each other's company- no again, they just want to be in the same spot. One is shy and doesn't have as big an appetite- no again, that one is submissive & afraid.

Please learn from our experience. Bullying isn't all blood and wounds and battles. It's one thriving and the other failing, and both stressed out. Don't wait until one is ill or bleeding or dead. They don't have friends, they have rivals.

Feed them every day. Water the entire substrate. That habitat is a nice size for one tortoise. I have to ask: are you sure the smaller one is a male?

Use a plant saucer for water, & get rid of those bowls. Lower the light. Get them outside on nice days. Vary the diet. Romaine is like crack & should be limited. There are do many good weeds & flowers available outside this season!

Welcome. We're here to help, even when it seems we're just shooting you down. The tortoises will thank you.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hello, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you, Jones And Wilma.
Some of the signs of aggression are very difficult to spot, just sitting next to each other can be a sign of trying to sit in the others place and looking at each other is not adoration. It's often psychological bullying rather than outright physical assault, though this can happen too, so be very careful.