NEW to Hermann's

[Apryl]

I have a little boy named Koopa (I assume it's a boy until he tells me otherwise). He was purchased as a hatchling in August and has since been upgraded to a larger house. He lives in the reptile room with ambient temperatures of about 70-75. He has a hot lamp with temperatures reaching 88F. He has a water bowl which I designed from a plastic lid, foil and saran wrap so he can walk in and out of it without getting caught on the edge. He has two houses and is currently living on paper towel - though before two days ago he was living on Jungle Earth bedding to help hold in humidity. He gets misted twice daily. His home is a rubbermaid tote that's clear plastic, 2'x1.5'. His diet is mostly romaine lettuce, spinach, and watercress. We occasionally throw in broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, parsley, kale (which he hates), cilantro (also hates), and the rare spoonful of baby food for a treat. He has a 5.0 reptiglow light less than 12" above his head, 1/2 of the enclosure is covered with plastic wrap to help keep humidity in, he has liquid calcium added to his water 2x/week and the greens are sprinkled with repcal calcium powder (the pink jar).

A couple days ago he switched to paper towel because we noticed his whole shell was soft. Not just soft, but the bottom in particular seems to "stick out" a little bit, and I can feel a slight raise between the... uh... scutes? He still reacts and pulls in when I tap each of his feet and his head. It looks like some scales are peeling off of his head (only 2 or 3, I assumed this was a natural shedding process, and only one is raised. He ate yesterday (although not with the speed-demon take off across the terrarium vigor) and I made sure he drank some normal water and then I removed him from the dish to make sure he wasn't soaking himself on the bottom. The paper towel is mostly dry except by the water dish. He hasn't pooped for two days.

I put him beside his house last night - he usually goes inside after the lights go off - but last night he stayed exactly where I put him. He is still aware. His eyes are clear. He is just REALLY soft, and we've been giving him calcium, and with the lights... *sigh* what am I not doing? Is this normal? I lack a qualified vet in my area. There's one - maybe - that I can bring him to, but I don't even know if I can get in. Any suggestions?

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't know about Hermann's tortoises, but seems to me that the soft shell is because there's not enough Vit d being generated because of the light to make his calcium work.

Hopefully a more experienced Hermann's keeper will come in and advise you on your habitat.

 

[Isa]

The temps looks good, IMO 70 can be a bit cold though
You should change his diet, romaine lettuce is good but part in a varried diet, spinach can be fed occasionaly. I feed carrots to my Hermann once every 3 or 4 weeks. You should forget about brocoli and tomatoes. My Hermann hates Parsley so I do not give it to him, you should stop feeding cilantro too, it smells very strong, that must be why Koopa does not like it. You can feed him spring mix, escarole, chicory, kale once in a while, watercress and dandelions once a week, butternut squash once a week...
Here is a very good thread about what to give to your Hermann
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-5823.html
Do you know what the substrate that was in the enclosure contains?
You should be careful with the paper towel, I would be scared that your Koopa tries to eat it (I know my Hermy would).

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I never let my day temps drop below 80, because egyptiandan once told me that raising temps is the nest way to keep hermans healthy. Right now as i speak the temp is 75 but it's beginning to drop a little (NEVER below 65 though) for the nightime. I find that by keeping the temps up Alfie is more active and eats more. I feed spring mix, dandilion, timothy hay, nastersians, very rarely bits of fruit (which alfie loves) and some dry feed once a week. Alfie has no problems with soft shell. I soak 2-3 times a week and put a powdered multivitamin and calcium every 2-3 times a week. I hope that someone else can offer you a better answer.... oh and my UVBlight is on 7am-9pm every day even if Alfie takes off for an early night

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm afraid your diet isn't the best (as pointed out already). There is a very good Hermanns caresheet at the top of this section of the forum.
Now that he/she's gotten soft you definately need to get a calcium supplement that has vitamin D3 in it. You will also need to get a liquid vitamin (I use Vitasol, for birds, by 8in1) to put in the soaking water twice a week. It's going to take a better diet, supplements and time to get him/her better.

Danny

 

[Apryl]

there's not enough Vit d being generated because of the light

I have a fluorescent Reptil-Glo 5.0 AND a heat lamp. Is there a light I am missing? I thought two were appropriate.

IMO 70 can be a bit cold though

I added a heating pad under his second hide covering 1/4 of the tub just in case he feels he needs more heat. Hopefully this will add more to the ambient temperature at night as well. Because he is in the reptile room, there are other heat pads and tape going 24/7 to provide heat overall. There are no windows, no place to create a draft.

His diet is mostly romaine lettuce, spinach, and watercress. We occasionally throw in broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, parsley, kale (which he hates), cilantro (also hates), and the rare spoonful of baby food for a treat.

The only things from my list that are missing are spring mix (which I will look for tomorrow), escarole, chicory, and dandelions. Most of which I'm not sure where to get in the dead of winter. A specialty greens store? No one sells dandelions... And the timothy hay? I didn't think that they were the sort of tortoise that ate grasses regularly like a sulcatta or russian did, especially not at 6 months of age. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see that on any caresheet.

you definately need to get a calcium supplement that has vitamin D3 in it. You will also need to get a liquid vitamin

No offense, but did you read what I typed out? I do have supplements - two of them. In more detail this time: Rep-cal Phosphorus-Free calcium with Vit.D3 Ultrafine powder and Calcium Liquid supplement by Exo Terra. He has a water bowl that he can walk in, but after reading the above care sheet in more detail they did specify a *warm* bath twice a week, which we will start doing.

I'm a little frustrated and upset because it seemed to come on suddenly - he's only been soft all-over for the last three days, wheras before it was just where the "bellybutton" would go, which I thought was normal for a growing tortoise to have some soft spots underneath, but be overall solid. PLUS, I thought I had everything right for him. I had the house, the special-made walk-in water dish, two lights, two supplements, a varied diet... (I've seen torts in homes where they eat iceberg lettuce -- YUCK!!!). I thought we were doing good and now

 

[Isa]

His diet is mostly romaine lettuce, spinach, and watercress. We occasionally throw in broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, parsley, kale (which he hates), cilantro (also hates), and the rare spoonful of baby food for a treat.

The only things from my list that are missing are spring mix (which I will look for tomorrow), escarole, chicory, and dandelions. Most of which I'm not sure where to get in the dead of winter. A specialty greens store? No one sells dandelions... And the timothy hay? I didn't think that they were the sort of tortoise that ate grasses regularly like a sulcatta or russian did, especially not at 6 months of age. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see that on any caresheet.

can you find Radichio for your little one? Hermy loves Radichio
Some tortoises will eat tomothy hay, but I do not feed it to my Hermann (he is still too young for that and his mouth is still too small for that) You are right, you should not feed timothy hay to your Koopa. But some tortoises when they are older will eat tomothy hay and will love it .
I find radichio, dandelions, escarole, chicory in a fruit/vegetables stores near my place. They sell all kind of fruits and veggies. Do you have a kind of place like that where you live?

Now that you will correct his diet, that you will use the soaking vitamin, I am sure he is going to be ok in no time .
What is the distance between him and the UVB light?

 

[Ozric]

Hi, I don't use the Reptiglo lighting so have no direct experinece of this but I checked a few places and the Exo terra Repti Glo 5 lamp is described as producing light such as in a rainforest and shady tropical conditions. This is not sufficient UVB for a Hermann. I know the manufactrures will say it is moderate to high UVB output but compared to the light sources that many of us use for Mediterranean tortoises it really isn't high or moderate at all.

Please excuse me if I've got the wrong lamp in my sights here, but if it is the one I think it is, it is not sufficient for a Hermann. Hermanns must have access to high UVB but also the opportunity to get away from it when they choose to do so. These tortoises are built for very bright conditions and benefit from UVA as well as UVB.

The lamp I like to use at the moment is a 120W MegaRay mercury vapour lamp which combines heat and light. These are not suitable for use in very confined spaces.

My humble opinion would be to consider switching to a higher power UVB source. This will help the tortoise to produce healthy growth with all the calcium that you are quite rightly adding to the diet. The striplights such as the Zoo Med Reptisun 10 are suitable if you are staying with separate heat and light sources and I think this is the minimum UVB that should be provided. Given that this tortoise is not doing so well, higher UVB output lamps may help recovery.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I have a fluorescent Reptil-Glo 5.0 AND a heat lamp. Is there a light I am missing? I thought two were appropriate.

I use Repti glowwith 10 UVB with a 50w infared basking lamp. A 5.0 will not be strong enough, even with a basking lamp. Both 5.0 and 10 UVB lights are expensive. I have a 10 in at the moment and a 5 stored for a spare

Tortoise's are not used to heat from underneath, so if your mat is under the hide remove it, and place it on a back wall or something. I turn Aflie's off in the day so that there is a 'cooler' end. I can post pics of my set up if that is helpfull, let me know

Alfie has never had soft shell. Try using a pure calcium powder. Daily soaking may help too.