Need advice on urates in egyptians

[Rtill]

Hello All. First let me introduce myself. My name is Ralph and I have been raising tortoises for 30 plus years. Living in central Fl has allowed me to keep everyone outside 24/7, 365 days. I raised greeks, redfoots,leopards. Last year I decided to switch to egyptians exclusively and so began the journey in on now.
I currently have 6 juveniles ranging from 18 -24 months. They are seperated into prs with each pr having a 48"X20" enclosure. UVB lighting is provided along with a heatlamp.
All seemed fine until yesterday when #3 started to act strange. #3 appeared to be having spasims. Would extend its rear legs and then front legs to the point it would tip over. Upon close examination I noticed traces of urates at the vent. Immediately placed #3 in warm water. After about 10-15 min. and after passing a few feces and a bit of urates a 1 cm. stone was passed. It hurt just seeing this being passed by this little guy. Afterwards #3 rested abit and began eating as if nothing had happened.
This can't be good. In 30 yrs I have never seen anything quite like it. I know this is long winded, but I wanted to get a much info out there as I could. I would welcome any suggestions, comments or recommendations. I'm very particular about diet, temps,humidity levels but perhaps i'm missing something. thanks in advance, Ralph

 

[dmmj]

Welcome
I don't keep egyptians, but I do know tortoises often like to eat stones. as long as it passed I would not worry about it. Is it showing any ill effects or signs from the passing?

 

[CyberianHusky]

I had a stone passing before and it sure scared me till the same thing happened afterwards kept eating like nothing happened. One of the best things I found that help with hydration with Egyptians is very wet food. Hand shred the greens and ball it up and run it under water till soaking wet and when placed on in there food plate spray with a little more water. My Egyptian sprint to the plate drink the pools of water off the leaves then eat. Drinking water off of leaves seems to be a morning ritual for them. As for humidity cause of this usually it is at 30% but will go up with wet food but will drop by noon. As for food the standard dandilions, butter lettuce, escarole frissee and so on. For a snack the small sedum varieties angelica and pork and beans they will devour what ever amount you give in one sitting.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Ralph:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

So, you think the passed stone was a hardened urate stone rather than something he swallowed? I know that some foods that are high in oxalic acids may cause the development of stones. The key is good hydration. I liked the helpful hint given by Cyberian Husky.

 

[Tim]

Hey Ralph! What part of central Florida? I'm in Orlando. I just got my first Egyptian last week. Cute lil bugger!

 

[Tim/Robin]

Hey Ralph, I missed this post until now. I have had my Egyptians pass small stones as well. I am convinced that it is a matter of hydration. As long as I soak them at a minimum of once a week and have a water dish in their enclosure I have not had any issues. I am sure all is well by now, but know your are not alone.

 

[CyberianHusky]

It been a while since this post and since then got a good system for hydration for my egyptians. First off always a little butter lettuce mixed in with there other greens. Also I crunch my greens into a wrinkled ball and get it soaking wet before I feed it to them. They will drink the water off the food before eating it and feed them this in the morning. The routine mine are on is wake up bask, drink water off food, eat some food, run some laps, eat more, dig into substrate by basking light with a little shell sticking out and nap for a bit. After that wake maybe snack on what is left run more laps then off to hiding log for lights out. You can keep a water dish but they even go to it. Very wet food and drinking water off of leaves is there gig. Also the succulent sedum is great for hydration and got burrows tail sedum growing in the table. Since all this my Egyptians urates has been runny white to clear and normal.

 

[DriveWRX]

Thanks for the good info.
This is why this forum is the best!

 

[CactusVinnie]

CyberianHusky,

I am not involved in Egyptians, but I would not give them any selected lettuce type. Base for my tortoises is wild cichory, field bindweed, dandelion, milk thistle, plantain species, wild lettuce, prickly lettuce etc.
I just say that suspecting a low-value item like cultivated lettuces would be even worse for a desert tortoise like kleinmanni, more than for other ones. Too precious to be fed with anything than hand-collected wild weeds, IMHO.

I went crazy seeing those Egypt guys that obviously don't know a bit about tortoises, having kleinmanni's... a small herd each of them... keeping them under a pathetic bulb and giving them carrots and watery ****- vegetables from the market, maybe... and one of them sells "Greek tortoises anywhere", when he doesn't know to sex them and why some females mount other tortoises... I thought Romania is a hell-hole with no law, but I managed to catch a poacher with the help of Police and Environment Guard- they use to collect Boettgeri. I played the "buyer". That guy and all like him deserve the same.

Cheers!

 

[GBtortoises]

Hello All. First let me introduce myself. My name is Ralph and I have been raising tortoises for 30 plus years. Living in central Fl has allowed me to keep everyone outside 24/7, 365 days. I raised greeks, redfoots,leopards. Last year I decided to switch to egyptians exclusively and so began the journey in on now.
I currently have 6 juveniles ranging from 18 -24 months. They are seperated into prs with each pr having a 48"X20" enclosure. UVB lighting is provided along with a heatlamp.
All seemed fine until yesterday when #3 started to act strange. #3 appeared to be having spasims. Would extend its rear legs and then front legs to the point it would tip over. Upon close examination I noticed traces of urates at the vent. Immediately placed #3 in warm water. After about 10-15 min. and after passing a few feces and a bit of urates a 1 cm. stone was passed. It hurt just seeing this being passed by this little guy. Afterwards #3 rested abit and began eating as if nothing had happened.
This can't be good. In 30 yrs I have never seen anything quite like it. I know this is long winded, but I wanted to get a much info out there as I could. I would welcome any suggestions, comments or recommendations. I'm very particular about diet, temps,humidity levels but perhaps i'm missing something. thanks in advance, Ralph

How often do they have access to water? Generally speaking, Egyptians do not drink from a pool of water in a container. They will often drink if "soaked". But the best way to ensure that they remain hydrated is to spray their food, spray the side of their enclosure near where they bask or include a safe plant in their enclosure that they can reach the leaves of and spray it down daily. Mine have never drank from a dish to point that I don't even include one in their enclosures. But I spray their food at each feeding and I spray their basking area and side wall of the enclosure near the basking area daily, sometimes twice a day. Never had a problem with urates or dehydration. The added benefit is that it may also decrease pyramided growth.

 

[CLMoss]

Wow! Welcome. We would love to see photos! Egyptians are so cute!