A loner in a group of four Egyptians

[CyberianHusky]

I got a curious question is it okay to have a loner tortoise? I got four Egyptians and the one tends to be very much always on her own doing her own thing. The other three bask, eat and sleep together. She always wakes and sleeps at different times and will eat when the others are not around the food. She even has her own den to sleep in.

 

[Missy]

Thats normal, most torts are loners.

 

[DixieParadise]

She is just dancing to the beat of a different drum. I would say that is normal from all that I have read. My two Redfoots sleep together, but when they are out in the yard after they eat...they are going in two different directions. Keeps me busy, but I think it is kind of cool.

 

[dmarcus]

She doesn't want to be caught in the crowd if something happens..

 

[Tccarolina]

Maybe she knows that tortoises that group together get spotted and caught by the local goat herder and sold in the market!

 

[CyberianHusky]

Maybe she knows that tortoises that group together get spotted and caught by the local goat herder and sold in the market!

I was reading about that recently. In Libya they are still somewhat plentiful because keeping them in your yard is traditionally a good omen there. Well people steel them in Libya and take them to Egypt to sell in the market.

 

[teq1]

My tortoise does that!!

Lol its quite funny actually. The loner, Eugene. While all the other Egyptians are eating together, exploring, and basking, Eugene is still asleep! After everyone else goes to sleep, he comes out, roams, then eats. I love each of their personalities. Its awesome

The only bad thing about it is that sometimes when i feed them pieces of nopal, the others will get to them first and not leave any for poor Eugene. I'll give him his own piece when I see that he's eating

 

[gmayor]

theres nothing wrong with loners there just different!

 

[CyberianHusky]

Here are some pics of the little loner.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It's normal.

 

[-EJ]

where did you read that? Can you send me a reference? I believe they are plentiful in Egypt and throughout their range.

Maybe she knows that tortoises that group together get spotted and caught by the local goat herder and sold in the market!

I was reading about that recently. In Libya they are still somewhat plentiful because keeping them in your yard is traditionally a good omen there. Well people steel them in Libya and take them to Egypt to sell in the market.

 

[Tccarolina]

EJ,
I thought they were virtually extinct in Egypt as well. Maybe they're not.
Here is what I found with a quick web search using "egyptian tortoise extinct" as keywords. The tortoise trust article seems to show a very poor outlook and the article is from 1994. Most of the others are poor references, but they all seem to point in the same direction.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/toreport.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~fridjian/
http://www.freebase.com/view/en/egyptian_tortoise
http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Egyptian+Tortoise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Tortoise
http://www.bristolzoo.org.uk/egyptian-tortoise

On what are you basing your statement (I believe they are plentiful in Egypt and throughout their range.) on?

Steve

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Steve: Likewise, I did a search using the words "...plentiful in Egypt and throughout their range..." and came up with the same articles as you. Sometimes it makes a big difference using other words, but in this case it was the same.

 

[CyberianHusky]

Libya and the Egyptian Tortoise numbers. I read this before a while ago and came across it in a youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmtlMp-Nsw

People just mentioning about Egyptian Tortoises having descent numbers in Libya because people keep them in there gardens as a good omen.

 

[Tccarolina]

I can imagine that most of the info on Egyptian Tortoises could be based on a few anecdotal studies, and some conjecture. So it's quite possible that they may be thriving in regions of Egypt, as EJ usually has an accurate opinion. Interested to find out what he knows on the topic. The Middle East is a high risk area to do field research unless your a native to the area you're studying.
On the other hand, the tortoises like the same food that goats do, and my impression (never been there, and have no inside scoop on whether this is true) is that all the tortoise habitat is likely heavily grazed by livestock. Further, I doubt there is a strong conservation sentiment with the local people, probably more of a survival sentiment judging by what's gone on there this year.
CyberianHusky, I watched that YouTube. Those are smooth adults! I would imagine that keeping tortoises in one's garden probably has the same effect on wild tortoise populations that it does for wild box turtle populations; more get removed from the wild for other peoples gardens. It's also possible that many of the tortoises in gardens are T. graeca, not T. kleinmanni.

 

[-EJ]

It doesn't look like that's the case. Don't get me wrong... they still have a very limited range and they are still exploited. They are rare.

Try and find some articles by Omar Attum.

EJ,
I thought they were virtually extinct in Egypt as well. Maybe they're not.
Here is what I found with a quick web search using "egyptian tortoise extinct" as keywords. The tortoise trust article seems to show a very poor outlook and the article is from 1994. Most of the others are poor references, but they all seem to point in the same direction.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/toreport.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~fridjian/
http://www.freebase.com/view/en/egyptian_tortoise
http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Egyptian+Tortoise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Tortoise
http://www.bristolzoo.org.uk/egyptian-tortoise

On what are you basing your statement (I believe they are plentiful in Egypt and throughout their range.) on?

Steve

 

[wrmitchell22]

I love the little loner, he is adorable!!

 

[Tccarolina]

I have a copy of his "An Evaluation of the Taxonomic Validity of Testudo werneri". I earlier tried to find the link to include it as well, since it references some Egyptian Tortoises from Egypt. All but two of the western tortoises were from museums or an confiscated group imported from Libya.


I just searched him, and here's what I found.
http://www.uga.edu/srel/ecoviews/ecoview030428.htm
I'm glad he's there documenting and researching this species.
http://seedmagazine.com/place/place_omar-attum.html
This one is interesting, although it only indicates he has found a small relic population.
http://www.uga.edu/srel/ecoviews/ecoview030428.htm
This article is about releasing Libyan T. kleinmanni into old habitats in Egypt, basically repatriation.
http://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2010/12/n012p011.pdf
An interesting article about Egyptians who are trying to save their namesake tortoises.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/guests/tortoisecare/project.html

This site has some interesting information as well, although it doesn't reference Omar Attum.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/21652/0

I was not able to pull up full articles on other research by Omar Attum, only abstracts. He has apparently given some lectures and I don't know what other articles he may have written. From what I was able to find, he is responsible for discovering some relic populations in Egypt, but focuses his research on that they are virtually extinct there. It's possible he may have found many other populations in the last few years, and they are indeed common, but I wasn't able to find evidence for it.
I hope you're right, and they really are plentiful, EJ! I'd be interested in any additional research on them you might have.

Steve

 

[-EJ]

The point I was trying to make is that they are not plentiful but they are not extinct.

I've spoken with Omar on the 2 times I saw him lecture. The lectures and speaking with him was very enlightening.

I have a copy of his "An Evaluation of the Taxonomic Validity of Testudo werneri". I earlier tried to find the link to include it as well, since it references some Egyptian Tortoises from Egypt. All but two of the western tortoises were from museums or an confiscated group imported from Libya.


I just searched him, and here's what I found.
http://www.uga.edu/srel/ecoviews/ecoview030428.htm
I'm glad he's there documenting and researching this species.
http://seedmagazine.com/place/place_omar-attum.html
This one is interesting, although it only indicates he has found a small relic population.
http://www.uga.edu/srel/ecoviews/ecoview030428.htm
This article is about releasing Libyan T. kleinmanni into old habitats in Egypt, basically repatriation.
http://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2010/12/n012p011.pdf
An interesting article about Egyptians who are trying to save their namesake tortoises.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/guests/tortoisecare/project.html

This site has some interesting information as well, although it doesn't reference Omar Attum.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/21652/0

I was not able to pull up full articles on other research by Omar Attum, only abstracts. He has apparently given some lectures and I don't know what other articles he may have written. From what I was able to find, he is responsible for discovering some relic populations in Egypt, but focuses his research on that they are virtually extinct there. It's possible he may have found many other populations in the last few years, and they are indeed common, but I wasn't able to find evidence for it.
I hope you're right, and they really are plentiful, EJ! I'd be interested in any additional research on them you might have.

Steve

 

[Tccarolina]

He sounds like a very interesting speaker. Maybe I'll get the opportunity to hear him sometime. Thanks for the info!

Steve