male horsefields fighting

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Hello I'm Pauline.
I have two 5 year old horsefield torotises, they appear to be two males but are trying to mate with one another and a lot of biting and butting going on, is this normal.

 

[dmmj]

Welcome
Yes male russians (and russian in general) are very territorial, separation into separate enclosure would most likely be the best choice.

 

[JoesMum]

Yes it's normal and they need separating... probably permanently

Russians are solitary in the wild and and in captivity as they get older become less and less tolerant of sharing their territory and food with others. The fighting frequently leads to blood being drawn. Even the females do this.

They don't get lonely. They don't need or want company.

Please get a second table and separate them before one of them is injured or becomes ill from the harassment.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Pauline:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

May we know appx. where in the world you are?

I'd like to offer you a suggestion: Please contact Josh, our administrator, and ask him to change your username. Its not a good idea to use your email address on an open forum like this.

 

[JoesMum]

From the email address, Pauline is in the UK

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. We have discussed this very subject several time recently. Yes this behavior is totally normal and predictable and it should never be allowed to happen. Serious injury or death is not only possible, it is probable and likely on the horizon for your animals. Not trying sound overly dramatic, but I worked in a retail pet store for 8 years and I saw some really bad, really extreme stuff. Russians are capable of, and willing to, tear each other up. Please separate these two before any further harm is done.

 

[socialworker81]

I am just curious if this is the case for all Russians. I have not seen this in mine yet and have had them together for a few years now. The only time I see any aggression is during mating. Which, of course, is expected. I have occasionally seen my female bob her head at the males and have seen the babies attempt to bite each other... but as of now, no wounds. The minute I see one though, another new table it is

 

[ChessieW]

I am just curious if this is the case for all Russians. I have not seen this in mine yet and have had them together for a few years now. The only time I see any aggression is during mating. Which, of course, is expected. I have occasionally seen my female bob her head at the males and have seen the babies attempt to bite each other... but as of now, no wounds. The minute I see one though, another new table it is

Same for me and my Horsefields.

 

[JoesMum]

Russians will not definitely fight, but they definitely have a greater tendency to do so. Common reasons for this starting are:
- reaching puberty
- a change to the environment (e.g. rearranging the table, planting new stuff, changing the substrate)
- introducing another tort

It can happen with any species, but the Testudo seem to be worse at sharing than most.

 

[socialworker81]

Russians will not definitely fight, but they definitely have a greater tendency to do so. Common reasons for this starting are:
- reaching puberty
- a change to the environment (e.g. rearranging the table, planting new stuff, changing the substrate)
- introducing another tort

It can happen with any species, but the Testudo seem to be worse at sharing than most.

Thanks for the infomration! It makes me laugh though, your description makes them seem "human." I would probably be a little "angry" if those things happened too and might want to fight with someone.

 

[Tom]

I am just curious if this is the case for all Russians. I have not seen this in mine yet and have had them together for a few years now. The only time I see any aggression is during mating. Which, of course, is expected. I have occasionally seen my female bob her head at the males and have seen the babies attempt to bite each other... but as of now, no wounds. The minute I see one though, another new table it is

All Russians have the potential for it and must be watched carefully when there is more than one in any enclosure. Some of them are worse than others about the fighting. Some of them will tolerate each other for a while, while others want to battle any other tortoise on sight. The safe bet is to have a separate enclosure for each individual you own ready to go, so that they can be easily separated when the time comes.

Springtime seems to heighten their feistiness, and really get them in the mood to fight off and drive away rivals (their cage mates), or get busy harassing the females into submission for breeding. These things tend to be worse in the relatively small confines of an indoor enclosure. I have sat and watched many a Russian (sulcatas too) busily march around a large outdoor enclosure relentlessly hunting a mate or a fight... It's just the nature of the species we keep. The males need to be able to get away from other males, and the females need to be able to get away from the sex-crazed males. Even females need to be able to get away from other territorial females. When they are stuck together in an enclosure, and escape is not possible, is where the serious stress and injury can happen.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Hibernation may also heighten both mating and aggression, since the winter rest period is thought to allow their gonads to release more hormone in the spring.

 

[socialworker81]

I am just curious if this is the case for all Russians. I have not seen this in mine yet and have had them together for a few years now. The only time I see any aggression is during mating. Which, of course, is expected. I have occasionally seen my female bob her head at the males and have seen the babies attempt to bite each other... but as of now, no wounds. The minute I see one though, another new table it is

All Russians have the potential for it and must be watched carefully when there is more than one in any enclosure. Some of them are worse than others about the fighting. Some of them will tolerate each other for a while, while others want to battle any other tortoise on sight. The safe bet is to have a separate enclosure for each individual you own ready to go, so that they can be easily separated when the time comes.

Springtime seems to heighten their feistiness, and really get them in the mood to fight off and drive away rivals (their cage mates), or get busy harassing the females into submission for breeding. These things tend to be worse in the relatively small confines of an indoor enclosure. I have sat and watched many a Russian (sulcatas too) busily march around a large outdoor enclosure relentlessly hunting a mate or a fight... It's just the nature of the species we keep. The males need to be able to get away from other males, and the females need to be able to get away from the sex-crazed males. Even females need to be able to get away from other territorial females. When they are stuck together in an enclosure, and escape is not possible, is where the serious stress and injury can happen.

Actually my husband just built a new one this weekend. I was not quite happy with the height, but it is much bigger for my torts. Now I have the old as a back-up. I have yet to see a problem in the several years I have had these Russians. I do keep a close eye on them. I would never want anything to happen to them and make an unwanted Vet trip.

When I was younger Tort owner, some friends purchased me a Greek Tortoise from the pet store. I was grateful for the present, even though he was used to eating tomatoes and other inappropriate foods. However, my mistake was putting him in with a female Russian. He was constantly trying to aggressively mate with her. I quickly learned my lesson and he was given a very good home to a local reptile expert.
I still have the female Russian though, and she produces beautiful babies. The Greek taught me an important lesson too. Watch your torts closely and have a backup plan!

 

[ascott]

" know your torts and have a back up plan" what a perfect and simple statement..

 

[dmmj]

Hibernation may also heighten both mating and aggression, since the winter rest period is thought to allow their gonads to release more hormone in the spring.

That answers my questions