Looking to brush up on my sulcata care

[Peter Williams]

I really only saw two things I would address: Small tortoises won't eat hay... and the substrate.

As for the hay, I had just put it in prior to taking the photos, to see how he would respond, as I mentioned.
_____________________________________________________________

Looks like you are on a good track to me. I think your sand ratio is way too high though. I'd add more soil or coir and keep it slightly moist.

I'm also a little worried about the hide. Is it supported in a way that it can't collapse on the tort?

You also may want to break up the cuddlebone a bit. I've found that can help get them chewing on it.

How is your heat? What do you have for a basking spot temp and warm and cool side temps?

What makes you think my sand ratio is too high, just by the look in the photos? It is roughly 80/20 soil to sand. Cuttlebone breaking duely noted. Hide issue already addressed, temperatures already mentioned.
_____________________________________________________________

I currently have 60+ snakes. From ball pythons, to boas, blood pythons, and reticulated pythons. I think it's safe to say I've read my share of care sheets and websites. I know just as well as anyone how much they can differ from one another, a lot give you false information on heating, eating, caging, etc. For every proper caresheet for any given species, there is more than likely at least 5 improper ones. At the start of my sulcata quest one year ago, I found that tortoise care sheets were certainly no exception. However, with that being said, I seemed to notice one thing between most of them that was fairly constant, the substrate. Most care sheets I visited that made a mention of substrate, seemed to all mention a top soil and sand mixture. If I may quote:

good substrates are organic top soil, 50/50 play sand & organic potting soil

The substrate is then changed to a mixture of topsoil (no additives, especially perlite) and pre-washed and dried play sand. A mixture of one part sand to three parts topsoil works well.

A really good substrate for a Sulcata is a 50/50 mixture of sterile soil (topsoil) and soft sterile playground sand.

After reading about this substrate over and over, I thought it was the way to go. However, as with my quest for snake knowledge, I quickly learned that turning to a forum is most definitely the best option, which led me to you fine people. Instead of reading some outdated care sheet on some sub-par website, you can interact with real, experienced keepers and get some straight answers. So am I wrong to use this substrate? I am of course open to changing it, what should I switch to?
_____________________________________________________________

Peter, I am so sorry. I thought I was giving you a "stern" talking to about the lack of water for your tortoise. I certainly didn't mean to hurt you or insult you. Typed words when someone reads them sound different then they are meant at times. Please accept my sincere apology. I didn't mean to hurt you I just was upset at the lack of water given to your tortoise. I'm sorry

I appreciate your apology Maggie. I understand completely your concern. On many a snake forums I'm a member of, more often than not, every day you'll find a thread titled "omg plz help my snake is burned help!". And when you realize the kind of neglect the poor animal has been put through, you just want to shout at the top of your lungs at this person and try to understand what the heck was going through their head. Over the last half-decade I have honed my snake knowledge and now like to consider myself very keen on the subject. I have helped many novice snake keepers and local friends with their husbandry woes. Sometimes I forget that posting on a new forum, people don't really have any idea who I am, and likely upon first impression may percieve me to be on the level of "omgz plz help", which is why I over-reacted to your initial post. For all you knew, I was some 10 year old kid with wreckless parents that let him get away with whatever he wants. I'm just here to let you know this is not the case, I love herps of all kind, and have chosen these wonderful creatures to be my next venture into responsible reptile ownership. I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, and hopefully we can put this behind us. And although it was poking fun, someone asked how old I am, I thought I'd let you folks know, I am 19.
_____________________________________________________________

In closing, I have quoted my original post, and have bolded a few statements I'm still looking to get some clarification/advice on.

Hi guys. I've had my sulcata tortoise coming up on a year now. I aquired it from a local pet store. I have it in a custom 2'x4' tortoise table. Substrate is soil and play sand. On one end I have a cardboard hide box with some rocks around it (the cardboard is very sturdy and will not buckle under the weight of the rocks, however, I plan on placing an upsized plastic hide box in as a replacement shortly), and other side I have a flat rock for basking, and a lid to a rubbermaid tub to act as a feeding platform. Above the basking rock I have a 160W zoomed powersun mercury vapor bulb, which is on a timer, it comes on a 9am and goes off at 9pm. Temp gun readings put the rock suface temperature at 91F-93F, and the table is in my snake room, so the room temp (and cool side of the enclosure) sits at 78F-82F. For the past months I've been feeding it a handful of spring mix dusted with rep-cal calcium powder and herptivite every other day. Just today I tried some timothy hay and moistened mazuri tortoise food, so far its shown no interest. Lastly, in the middle of the table I have a small shallow water dish, and a cuttlebone.

I'm wondering how I'm doing here. Right now I'm in the process of trying to get something set up to grow some trays of grasses that I could place in the enclosure and have it graze on occasionally. Also since I work at a grocery store, it's easy for me to pick up fresh greens nearly every day. I'm thinking about supplementing some dandelion greens. Any others to suggest?

Unfortunately I can't say I give it weekly soakings. More like monthly. How much should I be soaking it? And should I be misting the substrate? The dirt/sand gets pretty dry.

Here are some pictures I just took. I am very aware it exibits some pretty significant pyramiding, it looked this way when I bought it. I am proud to say I have noticed no increase in pyramiding since it's been in my care. Also, it is presently 4.5" in length. I have not really tracked size or growth in the last year, but I can't say it's exploded in size very much since I got it. It's stayed a fairly constant size, is this normal, and can anyone take an educated guess at how old it is?

One LAST thing, Mods, just curious, although its quite apparent why, I'm curious as to why Maggie's post was deleted? Anyone reading this thread in the future may think I'm a crazy person talking to himself now? Although we had a little scuffle, I think it was necessary in maintaining the integrity of this thread, and although at first I may not have liked it, it contained alot of well said advice. If it's possible to restore it, I would certainly appreciate it.

 

[TortieGal]

Have you checked out the food and diet section, There's a pretty good list of weeds and greens and other stuff to grow and feed.
I would just pour some water in the substrate and mix it up with your hands. I do this every couple days under the lights where it drys up fast.
Sorry I'm not very good at guessing age, It really depends on there care how fast or slow there going to grow. You should have noticed some good growth in a year.

 

[Yvonne G]

Maggie deleted her own post. There's no way to re-instate it.

Growing trays of grasses is always a good idea. As for the grocery store greens...escarole, endive, turnip greens, raddiccio, occasional kale, any dark, leafy greens. I've even used red or green-leaf lettuce occasionally. There's a nice list of greens here: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5823.html

You should first wet the substrate well by pouring a large glass of water over it and stirring it up. Then you can mist it every day to keep it moist.

From reading your history and seeing the picture I would guess appx. 2yr.

 

[chadk]

I don't mist at all. Misting just seems to get the top layer damp and then evaporate quickly. I just pour a glass of water in the area around the hide every other day or so.

Yes, using sand and soil or coir is fine. Just not as much as you might think. Most ratios you see are listed by weight - so if you see 50/50 sand to coir ratio, it is by weight, not volume. And I still think that ratio is too high. But definately keep your substrate moist and deep (at least in places) so the tort can dig down if it wants. Some are diggers, others not so much. But it is good for them as it helps regulate temps and find the moist substrate below the dry surface layer.

I get most of my tort food from my yard. Plenty fo weeds (dandilion, plantain, clover) and grass. Then I grow stuff in my garden: kale, romaine, mustard and collard greens, squash and pumpkin (treats only). And when things are in short supply, I will pick up grocery store greens and spring mix salads and then maybe some mazuri tort food.

 

[Peter Williams]

Thanks guys. I was thinking, could I mix some pumpkin puree with the mazuri tortoise diet to get him to start eating it?

 

[Peter Williams]

Enclosure redone. Added alot more soil, no more sand. New hide box, new water dish (one he could climb into if he wanted). I broke up the cuttle bone a bit and put a piece in his hide. And good news, he's taking an interest in the mazuri!

 

[chadk]

Looks good. I'd spice it up a little with plants, rocks, or something. What are the temps like? Looks like the lamp is pretty far away. What kind is it? My 100watt lamps are usally about 12-16 inches away to get my temps right.

 

[paperjamila]

lol, just wanted to comment on that last picture..looks like its running away from you cuz he doesnt want to take anymore pictures lol

cute little guy. or girl.

---

the one from the original photos**

 

[Peter Williams]

Looks good. I'd spice it up a little with plants, rocks, or something. What are the temps like? Looks like the lamp is pretty far away. What kind is it? My 100watt lamps are usally about 12-16 inches away to get my temps right.

Above the basking rock I have a 160W zoomed powersun mercury vapor bulb, which is on a timer, it comes on a 9am and goes off at 9pm. Temp gun readings put the rock suface temperature at 91F-93F, and the table is in my snake room, so the room temp (and cool side of the enclosure) sits at 78F-82F.

I would love to spice it up a little, but...if I put real plants in there, he'll eat them, and if I put fake ones, will he TRY to eat them? That's a funny sight to imagine. Any other ideas?

 

[Yvonne G]

Directly under the light the temp should be 100 to 110 degrees, with slightly cooler as you move away from the center of the spot. Also, the sides on your water dish look a little high to me. Have you seen the tortoise climb out of it?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Cheap fake plants are available at craft stores like Hobby Lobby. My tortoise does not try to eat them but other TFO's have remarked that their torties tasted, and then ignored the artificial foliage.

I've seen some folks use real plants, rotating trays of seedlings so one can recover while another is mauled. And I've seen plants placed near or over the enclosure with tendrils hanging down into the space.

If you browse through the "Enclosures" and "Photos and Video" sections, you will see all kinds of creative and clever set-ups.

Here is what Taco's enclosure looks like now: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10678.html

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Maybe some aloe vera would go nice? ^_^ Its a more arid plant