Annantim
New Member
Signed it just now
Lets take a stand for the animals that can't (please read)
- Thread starter Crush da Baum
- Start date
Braeden p
Well-Known Member
My Russian was wild caught from pet-smart so upsetting and Betty knows there is a better world.
L
LasTortugasNinja
Guest
Not signing. It'd be hypocritical. I have nothing against responsible use of wild caught specimens. Instead, I'd campaign for responsible training of store employees to properly educate the public that the cute little tort will be theirs for 50 to 80 years.
Also, because of the shutting down of backyard breeders, the only place to get certain dog breeds is from people who sell for $1200+ that used to be found as mutts for $20. If the tortoise breeders have no competition, they are free to charge $400-$1000 for their animals. Sorry, but this is a case where activism does more harm than good imho.
I'm not a fan of getting government involved in business. Probably makes me unpopular here, now, but that's my opinion.
Also, because of the shutting down of backyard breeders, the only place to get certain dog breeds is from people who sell for $1200+ that used to be found as mutts for $20. If the tortoise breeders have no competition, they are free to charge $400-$1000 for their animals. Sorry, but this is a case where activism does more harm than good imho.
I'm not a fan of getting government involved in business. Probably makes me unpopular here, now, but that's my opinion.
Your petition does nothing to promote or even allow for the sale of captive bred tortoises. Or, as @LasTortugasNinja points out, to promote better education and husbandry. A push to simply outlaw something without looking at all that would cover is dangerous. I totally agree that wild-caught wholesale exportation is bad. But even in your statement you seem unaware that the far bulk of imported russian tortoises are actually farmed. That in itself raises a whole new set of issues as farming operations can easily lead to wild-caught included in the "farmed" group. That is what needs to be controlled.
The best option is to not buy tortoises you do not know are captive raised. By buying them, you are supporting the practice you are trying to stop. Every chance I get, I strongly promote buying only captive raised tortoises. Through this forum we have the chance to further that as the best option I see.
Crush da Baum
Well-Known Member
I doubt they would be able to ban all reptile pets. If they did then they would have to do the same for dogs and cats because there are puppy mills and terrible things going on in that part of the pet trade too.
Crush da Baum
Well-Known Member
I am glad! Mine are wild-caught too.
That is a well-stated objective of PETA - To ban the possession of any animal. Animals should be wild, not pets.
L
LasTortugasNinja
Guest
Don't doubt it. There are groups that want to rid the world of pet reptiles. Anytime there is a story of a snake biting a child, eating a neighbor's pet, or other form of bad husbandry, they appear and demand strict control of all pets. Dogs and cats are cute, and specifically created as domesticated animals over thousands of years. Most reptiles are the same as their wild relatives... most are taken out of the wild. The activists want pets returned to the wild. These same groups also want to ban pet ferrets (as domesticated as dogs and cats and don't exist in the wild) as well as hedgehogs, sugar gliders, parrots, etc.
They don't see a difference between a savannah monitor and a saltwater croc, or a Russian tortoise and a green sea turtle. To them, all reptiles belong in the jungle.
silverbird
Member
I would agree that we should stop selling wild caught russian tortoises, if there was enough captive bred ones to satisfy the demand for them. If it was a perfect world, there would be no need to import wild caught ones and there would be a huge supply of breeders producing them at a reasonable price. But here in the real world, captive bred babies are out of the price range for a majority of the pet owners out there. The problem really lies with the collectors and exporters of them, and how they are being handled and taken care of, before they are being shipped to the US. I have a breeding pair of them, and if they produced large clutches of eggs; which unfortunately they can't because of their size; then they would be like the sulcata, and there would be no reason to import them.
silverbird
Member
I am going to be importing russian tortoises in a few months, and the collector I am going to be dealing with, will be taking the time and care to humanely collect them and will keep them after collection for about a month so they acclimate completely and are well fed; before they are ever shipped. Of coarse they are going to be more expensive than the ones that are wild caught and immediately shipped over here. I am concerned with being able to have healthy well acclimated animals to offer, and will keep them for 2-4 weeks after I do get them to make sure they ready to go. I am not just complaining about the problem; I am doing my part to help correct it.
vthompson58
New Member
Done!We need to do something about this and I really need everyone's help! When we unite together we can change the lives of so many poor torts!
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2012
- Messages
- 717
Not signing for the same reasons previously mentioned by others. Asking for government involvement is risking severe unintended consequences.
I feel that pushing something like this is very shortsighted. Consider that many states already ban pet stores from selling dogs and require licensing of breeders. Cure is far worse than the disease if you ask me....
If you really care about it, campaign for repealing the 4” law. This will do far more to displace wild caught tortoises with captive bred.
I feel that pushing something like this is very shortsighted. Consider that many states already ban pet stores from selling dogs and require licensing of breeders. Cure is far worse than the disease if you ask me....
If you really care about it, campaign for repealing the 4” law. This will do far more to displace wild caught tortoises with captive bred.
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive (no captive bred OR better education/conditions for pets being sold).
For THIS petition, it is a good thing, even if it may have some sneaky intent. And if it raises the price of them, GOOD! Maybe ppl will be more serious about buying them. It's just too easy to impulsively buy them right now which leads to the deaths of so so many.
For THIS petition, it is a good thing, even if it may have some sneaky intent. And if it raises the price of them, GOOD! Maybe ppl will be more serious about buying them. It's just too easy to impulsively buy them right now which leads to the deaths of so so many.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2012
- Messages
- 717
I disagree with some of this. Captive bred hatchlings could be produced en masse and sold at the right price point - maybe not Russians, but sulcata or babcocki leopards could be. Few are doing it and I suspect the 4” law is a big reason why. Having to raise them all to 4” kills the business model, I think. Pretty hatchlings would outsell beat up imports any day.
L
LasTortugasNinja
Guest
the people who would lobby congress would take away your tortoises... no captive bred OR wild caught. They don’t care, they are zealots who think of humanity as an unnatural plague. These same people convinced California that ferrets would run rampant and kill off every native species. Ferrets are more domesticated than cats. Ferrets can not survive in the wild. They lack the instincts to survive. Just like you’ll never see a pack of wild yorkies in Yellowstone. But California bought it hook, line, and sinker.
but yeah, people are welcome to shoot themselves in the foot. The animal rights wackos will supply the bullets and even load the gun, just to help!
Chubbs the tegu
Well-Known Member
Many states are trying to make it really hard to buy reptiles rn.. do u really want to have to get a permit for every reptile u buy? That would be really annoying . I was talking to the owner of NERD.. a reptile distributer near me and he was telling me that their trying to pass That law.
Well, honestly, you're supposed to have a lic for dogs in some cities/ counties/ states and I don't know anyone who actually has one though they live in locations that require one. Same also for ferrets. I don't know how stringently a lic for reptiles would actually be enforced if it pans out like the ferret/dog one.
Besides....think of the pandemonium if all the sulcatas and Russians got let go!!! It would be the slowest chaos ever! ?
Chubbs the tegu
Well-Known Member
The stores would not be allowed to sell to anyone without a permit.. or face a huge fine. I dont think it’ll pass.
has there ever been a turtle or tortoise species the was endangered , critically endangered , or vulnerable that became near threatened or least concern ? I don't know of any , I do know turtles that have been protected for decades and their populations are not recovering …………. why does asia have such a huge percentage of the critically endangered turtles and tortoises in the world ?
Crush da Baum
Well-Known Member
You guys do have a point but I did make Petco and Petsmart the decision makers so really it does not matter how many signs we get, they get to decide.
We are not involving the government. Petco and Petsmart are the decision-makers and it comes down to them no matter how many signs we get. We are just showing the reptile community knows what they are doing and cares.
