Is this an acceptable enclosure?

[Mr Buster]

You are talking like I am putting an Orca in a bath tub. Buster is thriving and doing well, When I see evidence of "inhumane" or lack of thriving I will let you know. This is an animal that lives up to 10 months underground during the year. No, I don't objectify my pets, I just choose logic over rhetoric.

 

[saginawhxc]

You can do whatever you want with your tortoises, and you are free to tell people that it is okay to keep tortoises in 5 Sq Ft of floor space, but the overwhelming majority of us here think it's horrible advice to give and will make sure the OP knows that every single time.

So don't feel attacked or even judged. You are probably a great guy. But there aren't many around here that will ever agree with you on this. I for one won't ever see eye to eye with you on it.

 

[JoesMum]

My apologies to the original poster of this thread, but we want you to be aware when we don't necessarily agree with some people and why.

Some TFO members have owned tortoises for a very long time and discovered mistakes the hard way. We try to avoid giving advice that will repeat mistakes we made.

You need to take care when advising newbies @Mr Buster. Find out about their tortoise and their setup before giving anything more than general advice.

I am also very conscious of geographic location. Here in the UK we don't have the rubbermaid brand and a tote is a kind of large bag... can you see the problem? We use the same language as the USA, but words don't always mean the same!

What you do with your tortoise, in your home and climate may not work for someone with an older/younger animal in a different location.

What I do with over 40 years experience with my tortoise where I live may not be something I am comfortable with recommending to someone starting out.

What I have learned, the hard way as I had to keep Joe indoors in hospital quarters one year due to a hormonal problem, is that 4'x8' is too small for a mature Greek. He hated it! Russians are much more active than Greeks; they need lots of space. In the wild, they roam huge distances; keeping them cooped up is like keeping a chicken in a battery farm cage.

That 4'x8' recommendation may seem arbitrary, and to some extent it is, but it is a good guideline for the minimum space needed by adult Testudo. It's not an exact measurement that you must have, it's a guideline that you should aim to exceed if you can.

 

[Mr Buster]

Well, here we go again, you are adamant that with many years experience it is definitely this measurement. The problem I have with that is that other people with the same amount of experience, some of them vets and some professional organizations have a different opinion. from what I have seen myself, I think the sight breaks are the key and you can go with far less space than you are claiming and maintain an interesting and comfortable habitat for the tortoise.

 

[JoesMum]

Well, here we go again, you are adamant that with many years experience it is definitely this measurement. The problem I have with that is that other people with the same amount of experience, some of them vets and some professional organizations have a different opinion. from what I have seen myself, I think the sight breaks are the key and you can go with far less space than you are claiming and maintain an interesting and comfortable habitat for the tortoise.

No I said it was a good guideline that I found not to be big enough for a fully mature (50 yrs old+) species that is less active than a Russian.

My points were
- that the measurement is a starting point
- that you need to know more about the original poster's animal before you jump in and say how much space will be enough.
- our experience is just as valid as the other experts you cite (and my vet, a herp expert, says 4'x8' too as that's who I got the hospital setup from before I joined TFO)

 

[saginawhxc]

If this is going to be continued to be debated here, maybe it should be moved to its own thread.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like Mr Buster's initial suggestion is relevant to the thread and our initial response is fair, but after that it starts to feel like it's hijacking the thread.

 

[Mr Buster]

No I said it was a good guideline that I found not to be big enough for a fully mature (50 yrs old+) species that is less active than a Russian.

My points were
- that the measurement is a starting point
- that you need to know more about the original poster's animal before you jump in and say how much space will be enough.
- our experience is just as valid as the other experts you cite (and my vet, a herp expert, says 4'x8' too as that's who I got the hospital setup from before I joined TFO)

I don't think this is a response to one of your comments, but to a comment made to another poster.

 

[Mr Buster]

If this is going to be continued to be debated here, maybe it should be moved to its own thread.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like Mr Buster's initial suggestion is relevant to the thread and our initial response is fair, but after that it starts to feel like it's hijacking the thread.

It is too relevant to the OP because the person who started the thread was asking for advice on an enclosure for a future pet and this entire debate has been and is focused on that.

One way to hijack a thread is to accuse one with a relevant viewpoint you disagree with is hijacking. Go ahead and hit that report button, I dare you.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

This doesn't need to get heated.

The reason people appeal to years of experience with enclosure size, is that unless you've seen many animals cared for in different ways, it's hard to know when one is thriving or just surviving. Tortoises can live in most any size enclosure so long as other conditions are right. They grow, they bask, they sleep, they pace - it can be hard to know what to look for if you've only seen behaviour in one animal, in one habitat, over a short period of time. Tortoises housed in large, natural looking, outdoor enclosures act differently than tortoises kept in little boxes inside. Not only are they more active, but they are active in different ways. This isn't to say that you can't keep a tortoise in a Rubbermaid tub, but that many keepers would not chose too if they have alternatives available.

 

[saginawhxc]

It is too relevant to the OP because the person who started the thread was asking for advice on an enclosure for a future pet and this entire debate has been and is focused on that.

One way to hijack a thread is to accuse one with a relevant viewpoint you disagree with is hijacking. Go ahead and hit that report button, I dare you.

You are edging closer and closer to the line of being openly confrontational. This isn't the time or place for it. I've spoke my mind on the subject and I'm going to walk away from this before it turns into a full fledged fight.

For the record though, I don't need to report anything. The mods here are really good. If they see something they don't like, they will handle it.

 

[cmacusa3]

Well, here we go again, you are adamant that with many years experience it is definitely this measurement. The problem I have with that is that other people with the same amount of experience, some of them vets and some professional organizations have a different opinion. from what I have seen myself, I think the sight breaks are the key and you can go with far less space than you are claiming and maintain an interesting and comfortable habitat for the tortoise.

I'm guessing this is your first tort and you've had him for only a few months? Don't you think it's fair for the OP to listen to those with years of experience over that. keeping one in a small tub for that short period of time you really don't know if it's thriving. I went through your old post and you've had a difficult time thus far with buster.

 

[Mr Buster]

For every experienced person telling me it is too small there is someone with as much experience saying it is not.

 

[JoesMum]

For every experienced person telling me it is too small there is someone with as much experience saying it is not.

And all we are asking is that you do a little more fact finding before you say that your way is the best way of keeping their tortoise. Because experience will teach you that frequently it is not.

 

[Mr Buster]

And all we are asking is that you do a little more fact finding before you say that your way is the best way of keeping their tortoise. Because experience will teach you that frequently it is not.

Quote me where I said it was the best way or argued against your way. If I recall correctly I stated that bigger was probably better but that the trick with going smaller was site blockers. If I put down your way of doing then quote me.