Is there an overbreeding problem with sulcatas?

[ascott]

Tom...you would be someone that I was directly referring to when I said that there are "long term breeders" out there ....I find you to be a benefit to this species of tortoise... So, yeah I was aiming this particular comment to you....was meant as a positive comment, btw

Neal, that pic that you posted says alot, disgusting to imagine that those magnificent creatures have been reduced to that....

Chris, you are toooooo fun. Coop and you were meant for one another...two souls designed to intertwine, purely lovely. I also enjoy your being "nuts".....LOL

I agree, this has been a great thread....

 

[Tom]

WOW!!! What a great thread filled with great insight and perspective.

Neal, Excellent points and excellent insight. I never thought of it as a "buyers" problem vs. a "breeders" problem. Not surprising coming from you. I can't remember ever seeing an unintelligent post from you. Thanks for expanding my perception of the subject.

Carl, I too hold you in the highest respect among tortoise keepers. I appreciate your words and it is clear that we have had different experiences in our different parts of the world regarding this species. Your words do NOT fall on deaf ears. I will consider them for some time to come.

Neltharion, Sulcatas are not on that list because they were not widely know or available for most of the 80's. I have a friend/mentor who ran the largest West coast wholesale/import reptile business up until around 1985. Understandably he was, and still is, very well respected and connected in the reptile community. He has opened many doors for me... He and I talked about this a while back and he confirmed my perception of when sulcatas became readily available. The first time I ever saw one was in 1991. The breeder walked into the pet store where I worked with a tub of tiny CB sulcatas and leopards. The leopards were $150 and the sulcatas were $100.

Jacqui, I find your thoughts on this very insightful too.

Thanks Angela. But I totally got that the first time around.

Not trying to skip anyone here. Thanks to all for a great and insightful conversation.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

The short answer is yes.
Sulcata tortoises are a large and impressive species of reptile that require a lot of space, dig deep burrows (when allowed) and consume huge amounts of food. In many ways they remind me of Burmese pythons that are another wonderful species of reptile but that are also completely unsuitable 'pets' for most of the people who decide to purchase them.
Both Burmese pythons and sulcatas are prolific breeders that produce incredibly cute hatchlings that ill informed people find irresistible. Unfortunately, those cute hatchlings eventually grow to be enormous animals that only the most dedicated of keepers are equipped to care for properly. Sadly, most of these endearing hatchlings will end up living miserable lives in spaces that are entirely too small for them, will be released into the wild where they will die or where they will displace native species, or they will end up in rescue shelters that are often already overwhelmed with members of their own kind.
The people who actively breed and sell these animals are often only thinking of the income they provide and never stop to consider the eventual fate of the hatchlings they produce. I guess it must be said that many simply don't care.

It is a sad but undeniable fact.

100% agreement!

I've got 11 "orphan" Burms right now that need homes and find myself in the unpleasant position of only be able to accept tame ones under 8' in length...larger and/or non-docile ones get euthanized, I'm sorry to say, because nobody will adopt them.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Very interesting thread.

I agree that there's a real problem here. Bottom line: while numbers vary from region to region, there seems to be a concerning number of people buying sulcatas who don't really a clue how to properly keep them. This is evidenced by the numbers of unwanted sulcatas ending up on Craigslist, rescues, etc...not to mention the unknown numbers of babies that die within the first year simply out of poor husbandry.

However, the solution is not clear. Regulating breeders would be difficult, time-consuming and unfair to all those (like many on this forum) who are responsible). Who's to say this person can breed sulcatas but this person can't?

Likewise, restricting or regulating the freedom of buying or owning sulcatas would have similar issues. Personally, I feel the last thing we need is the govt stepping in and requiring permits to own tortoises that grow over ___ lbs and/or ____ shell length. I hate to see it come to that, but maybe if it saves the lives of some tortoises, perhaps thats the price we pay for this luxury (after all, reptile keeping is a luxury). I dunno...like others have said, its a issue that is present with many reptile species, as well as many other pets. But where do you draw the line?

 

[Tom]

Those who would trade freedom for security will have neither...

 

[morloch]

A little off topic!! But in Canada sulcata hatchlings cost anywhere from $450 to $650, does make you think long and hard before getting into such a long term commitment!!
Bobbymoore also lives in Canada, I'd be interested to hear what she paid for hers!,,,,