Is Sid a boetteri or hercegovinensis (we'll love him whichever:-)

[PeterB]

Hi there - newbie here
This week my daughter became the very proud owner of Sidney - a Hermanns tortoise. I've included some pics, one or two of which are little blurred because the little bugger moves so quick .
Thing is, I've looked at the diagrams/photos HermanniChris very kindly posted in the Hermanns forum but my untrained eye can't make out if it's a boetteri or hercegovinensis - due to the colouring at the rear. Can anyone help?
Also, we live in the Italian Alps at just under 1,300mts (+/- 4,000ft). At the mo, Sid is out in our small garden (about 3mts by 15mts + a 50cm by 2mts dirt patch which should have flowers...but not this year!), which gets loads of sun and doesn't get too cold at night. He's been munching on the dandelions in the grass & he seems to like tomatoes (he's had 2 cherry tomatoes in the last few days - is that ok?). Also, I read I should get a cuttlefish bone for him - which I'll do in the week.
But my main worry right now is that I don't know what outside temp I should be watching for before bringing him inside for hibernation..a subject for which I already has a list of questions, but I'll save for another day, lol!
Anyway, I'm rambling
Cheers
P

 

[Yvonne G]

@HermanniChris is the one to ask this question of. He'll come on in a little bit and help you.

 

[HermanniChris]

Sid looks to definitely be a boettgeri but a plastron shot will tell for sure.

 

[PeterB]

@HermanniChris
Many thanks for your help! Right, - after discovering what a plastron was (oh my ignorance - lol!), I took a couple of pics - see attached. One shows the plastron (which is quite glossy because it's wet thanks to last night's rain). The top edge of the humeral scalps appear to form a V (I'm looking at the diagrams/photos in your very helpful 21st Jan 2009 post as I write, btw), so that would seem to indicate a boettgeri, but the colouring appears closer to the hercegovensis (more black). Is that just my newbie eye?
The other thing is looking at the suprecuadal shield, there is both colouring and a division (see the ever-so-slighlty better photo than in my orig post), although as you say in your 2009 post, it's possible for a boettgeri to have this (if I understood correctly)
BTW - I've measured his shell & it's about 15cm long - don't know if that helps
Oh one last thing - does it look like he's suffered a little pyramiding - or is that just newbie neurosis
For me this is getting curiouser and curiouser
Let me know if need any other info & really - thanks again
P

 

[PeterB]

@HermanniChris is the one to ask this question of. He'll come on in a little bit and help you.

Thanks for calling in the big guns

 

[HermanniChris]

He's without a doubt boettgeri. No hercegovinensis origin in there. The black plastron is typical of many boettgeri in that the pigment is plentiful but more spread out. You can also see the heavy pigment on the gular scutes, anther trait of boettgeri and not so much the others. In hermanni we see continuous, bold stripes on the plastron that are very defined, almost as though they were "painted" on and in hercegovinensis we see something similar but very broken up. Also pay no attention to the supracaudal shield being divided. Any and all Hermann's tortoises can and do have this. It is only when we are dealing with T. h. hermanni that it really must be divided at all times. Beautiful animal!

 

[PeterB]

He's without a doubt boettgeri. No hercegovinensis origin in there. The black plastron is typical of many boettgeri in that the pigment is plentiful but more spread out. You can also see the heavy pigment on the gular scutes, anther trait of boettgeri and not so much the others. In hermanni we see continuous, bold stripes on the plastron that are very defined, almost as though they were "painted" on and in hercegovinensis we see something similar but very broken up. Also pay no attention to the supracaudal shield being divided. Any and all Hermann's tortoises can and do have this. It is only when we are dealing with T. h. hermanni that it really must be divided at all times. Beautiful animal!

Thank you VERY much - this is all SUPER interesting!
Have a good one
P