Is my hermanns tortoise sick?

[Jenni2010]

Hello. My son got a hermanns tortoise for Christmas. However for the past couple of days he’s been blowing the odd bubble out of his nose. I’ve been reading mixed reviews/opinions online so dont really know what to think. I’m really worried as this is our first tortoise and I don’t know what to believe. I’ve kept his temperatures up and also given him a carrot bath today. He’s been eating and basking and quite active for a little while? His nighttime temperatures in his bedroom are between 25-27 degrees Celsius. His temperature under his basking light is between 32-35degrees Celsius. Can anybody give me any more advice? Also, is it true that they take water in from their bottom?
Thanks!

 

[wellington]

Over all temp should be 80F. Basking temp 95-100F
Night temps not below 70F.
Humidity 80% for a young one and 50% for an adult.

 

[wellington]

Please read this and follow the info on this forum not outside this forum.
Thread 'The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

 

[TammyJ]

Hi and welcome! You have landed on the best possible place to get caring and correct help. Please follow the advice given, thanks.

 

[Tom]

Hello. My son got a hermanns tortoise for Christmas. However for the past couple of days he’s been blowing the odd bubble out of his nose. I’ve been reading mixed reviews/opinions online so dont really know what to think. I’m really worried as this is our first tortoise and I don’t know what to believe. I’ve kept his temperatures up and also given him a carrot bath today. He’s been eating and basking and quite active for a little while? His nighttime temperatures in his bedroom are between 25-27 degrees Celsius. His temperature under his basking light is between 32-35degrees Celsius. Can anybody give me any more advice? Also, is it true that they take water in from their bottom?
Thanks!

Your son's whole room is 25-27C at night?

How did you get this tortoise? Did it get cold during transportation?

You've got the wrong substrate, which means you've probably gotten the wrong type of enclosure and bulbs too. Coil type cfl UV bulbs can cause nose bubbles. Sometimes dry dusty substrate can cause nose bubbles too.

Please take a few minutes to read this. Look for the heating and lighting breakdown and the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Jenni2010]

Your son's whole room is 25-27C at night?

How did you get this tortoise? Did it get cold during transportation?

You've got the wrong substrate, which means you've probably gotten the wrong type of enclosure and bulbs too. Coil type cfl UV bulbs can cause nose bubbles. Sometimes dry dusty substrate can cause nose bubbles too.

Please take a few minutes to read this. Look for the heating and lighting breakdown and the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

No the tortoise is downstairs at the minute. The bedroom compartment in the enclosure is 25-27 at night. Everything we have is correct. We had to take photos of everything to show the guy at the reptile shop before he would let us bring him home. Yes we are going to change the substrate too.

 

[Tom]

Everything we have is correct. We had to take photos of everything to show the guy at the reptile shop before he would let us bring him home.

If you took advice from the reptile shop, then everything is very likely not correct.

That there is a "bedroom compartment" in the enclosure tells us that you were sold one of those open topped wooden tortoise enclosures. Those are not suitable for any tortoise of any age. They are too open to contain humidity for a baby, the wood will rot and mold with the necessary moisture, and they are too small for anything but a little baby.

We will be glad to help you. Nose bubbles can be a sign of an oncoming respiratory infection. This is usually caused by cold temperatures, but can also be caused by dry dusty substrate, cfl bulbs that are burning their eyes (these are sold in double deep domes along with a spot bulb by most pet shops), and even some foods some of the time.

Did you read the thread I linked? It explains why you are getting the wrong info and products from the pet shop.

 

[Jenni2010]

If you took advice from the reptile shop, then everything is very likely not correct.

That there is a "bedroom compartment" in the enclosure tells us that you were sold one of those open topped wooden tortoise enclosures. Those are not suitable for any tortoise of any age. They are too open to contain humidity for a baby, the wood will rot and mold with the necessary moisture, and they are too small for anything but a little baby.

We will be glad to help you. Nose bubbles can be a sign of an oncoming respiratory infection. This is usually caused by cold temperatures, but can also be caused by dry dusty substrate, cfl bulbs that are burning their eyes (these are sold in double deep domes along with a spot bulb by most pet shops), and even some foods some of the time.

Did you read the thread I linked? It explains why you are getting the wrong info and products from the pet shop.

Yes I read through the information you sent via the link…being a novice I understand it is easy to get sucked in by bad advise from shops etc…the internet is absolutely full of completely different information which mostly contradicts itself…what one person says is good and others say is bad….the local shops in my area all swear by the grass pellets as a substrate…today we have completely changed out the substrate for cypress mulch which I found to be a lot better as soon as I opened the bag…whilst buying this the store owner was trying to tell us to buy grass pellets and was informed not to listen to things on forums etc which you can understand is difficult to stand in an exotic pet store labelled a novice and try and hold your own….as far as cfl bulbs this isn’t what we have bought…I’m going to upload some pictures of the equipment and the tortoise table we have so people don’t make assumptions but if somethings looks wrong obviously we will try and address the wrong doing….basking spot temp is at 33 degrees celcius and the hide nighttime temperature is kept at 27 via heat mat and thermostat which isn’t under the substrate…we’ve had the tortoise since Christmas Eve and has been given soaks in loot warm water everyday since….we have the basking lamp on for 13 hours a day even though the tortoise is only out and about for about 3-4 hours….regarding the bubbles nose we have seen no bubbles today and the tortoise is more active today then the first couple of days….hes eating fresh kale and rocket leafs everyday…again we where told to add calcium powder to his food twice a week which we are doing….but any help regarding the calcium additive would be appreciated…like anything we new it was going to be trial and error at first and haven’t just decided at the spare of the moment to buy something like a tortoise…we generally really care and want this animal to live as healthy and stress free as possible…

 

[Jenni2010]

These are the photos of the enclosure and the lights.

 

[Tom]

These are the photos of the enclosure and the lights.

Here are my observations:
1. You only have one bulb. You need four. Mercury vapor bulbs have proven very unreliable as far as UVB output, and they also cause pyramiding in young growing animals. You don't want UVB on for 12 hours a day. That is unnatural and it doesn't happen that way outside. 3-4 hours mid day is best, but you need other lighting to keep it bright and "sunny" all day long. The basking lamp should project onto a flat rock of some sort, and check the temp by laying a digital thermometer on its back directly under the lamp and letting it cook for an hour or more. It needs to reach 36-37C. This is a problem with MVBs. The tortoise needs to be able to move in an out of the basking area to keep warm and regulate its temperature, but they should not be bombarded by high levels of UV for 12 hours a day. Outside there is zero UV in the morning and evening sun. UV builds slowly, peaks mid day, and is back to zero by late afternoon. Most tortoises avoid the mid day sun when housed outdoors with its high levels of UV. Without a meter, there is no way to know if that bulb is producing zero UV, or way too much. In your climate tortoises have to spend months of every year indoors. Its important to manage the UV correctly. MVBs do not.
Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

2. Open topped enclosures don't work for babies. There is no way to properly heat and humidity it. That is like trying to heat your home in winter with no roof. Open topped enclosures only work if the room air is the correct temperature and humidity for the tortoise, like in a heated reptile room, for example. You need a viv.
3. Heating the hide area is not a good way to go. The whole enclosure needs to be heated during the day, and it should be allowed to cool down to around 21-22C at night for a baby Testudo. See the heating and lighting breakdown above.
4. You made the right choice for the substrate, but it needs to be kept damp. That dampness may leak and it will rot the wood.
5. You did great with the water and food bowls. Perfect.
6. They need hiding areas and "furniture", but be careful with the plastic plants. Every tortoise I have tried that with eats them, and that can cause a blockage. I like potted plants for this purpose, like pothos, spider plants, and a few others. I also use branch clippings from outside like lavatera, grape vines (with no grapes, just leaves), mulberry branches, and hibiscus branches. These offer great cover, great food, and I replace them as needed every couple of days.
7. They gave you good advice on the calcium supplement. A tiny pinch a couple of times per week, all mixed in with the greens, is a good general guideline.
8. Read up in the links on food. If you must use grocery store greens, it needs to be amended in one or more ways to add fiber, calcium and variety. Kale is okay once in a while, but not as a staple. Rocket is good, but favor curly endive and escarole as mainstays. Add in cilantro, carrot tops, bok choy, collards, mustard and turnip greens and others for variety.

I know this is a lot to take in and its hard to discern who to listen to. In time you will get it all figured out. Ask lots of questions. Ask for explanations on why we make these assertions. You've got my explanation on the MVBs, ask the pet store to explain why they think high levels of UV all day long makes any sense, and what they say about the pyramiding that they cause? They are likely to get mad at you and insult you. That is what typically happens. They don't like to be told they are wrong, but they are. I wish they would learn, but most of them don't.

 

[Jenni2010]

If I could incorporate these three bulbs and have use them as required in separate light fittings on timers and thermostats etc would this be better? I’ve read a lot about compact fluorescent bulbs being bad but also if there in correct light fitting suspended high enough they can work well…again not sure how true that is

 

[zolasmum]

Hello. My son got a hermanns tortoise for Christmas. However for the past couple of days he’s been blowing the odd bubble out of his nose. I’ve been reading mixed reviews/opinions online so dont really know what to think. I’m really worried as this is our first tortoise and I don’t know what to believe. I’ve kept his temperatures up and also given him a carrot bath today. He’s been eating and basking and quite active for a little while? His nighttime temperatures in his bedroom are between 25-27 degrees Celsius. His temperature under his basking light is between 32-35degrees Celsius. Can anybody give me any more advice? Also, is it true that they take water in from their bottom?
Thanks!

Congratulations on having a Hermanns tortoise - ours is 23 now, and we love him so much - he is wonderful.
I don't think anyone answered your question about tortoises absorbibg water through their bottoms - this is true, so even if he isnt drinking, he absorbs the water - and the carrot vitamins etc through his other end !
Best wishes from Angie (in Devon)

 

[zolasmum]

Please tell us your little chap's name - and do stick to the information in this forum - there are people here who have a lot of experience ( not me ) and can help you with the best ways to sort out any of your problems .I just wish the forum had existed when we first got Zola !
Angie

 

[Tom]

If I could incorporate these three bulbs and have use them as required in separate light fittings on timers and thermostats etc would this be better? I’ve read a lot about compact fluorescent bulbs being bad but also if there in correct light fitting suspended high enough they can work well…again not sure how true that is

Do NOT use the cfl type bulbs. In addition to the danger they potentially pose to your tortoise's eyes, they are not an effective UV source due to the weak UV output and relatively small area that they illuminate. Get a ProT5HO 12% kit instead. When you run it for 2-4 hours mid day, as you should, it will last for years and keep making strong, effective UVB.

You also need some ambient lighting. LEDs work best for this. You can use screw-in type LED bulbs for this in a dome fixture or the under cabinet mount type strip LEDs.

 

[Jenni2010]

Just a quick question. We are in the process of upgrading the equipment and enclosure. Can somebody please tell me what is better. An infrared basking lamp or a normal basking lamp? Thanks

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Just a quick question. We are in the process of upgrading the equipment and enclosure. Can somebody please tell me what is better. An infrared basking lamp or a normal basking lamp? Thanks

For a basking zone - normal, incandescent flood lamp. For ambient heat - ceramic heat emitter.