Indoor Leopard Enclosure?

[_simon_]

I've had my leopard for a year now and he's 1 year, 6 months old. I followed all the advice I was given prior to getting the leopard and had the set up ready a week before hand.

He wasn't perfectly smooth when I got him but he seems to have got more bumpy. I posted on another forum asking for advice and had some replies saying I keep him too warm and one saying he could do with being warmer.

So my current set up is a 5' long rabbit cage with a basking spot of 42.5C. I use a 12% Arcadia T5 in the centre of the enclosure and also run a 150w ceramic bulb 24/7. The ambient in the cage is low to mid 20C's.

Looking at the caresheet on this forum, the basking temperature seems to be ok, so I'm just looking to keep the ambient up. With it being an open enclosure I'm really struggling so I think I need to move him over to a vivarium. No matter where I go, if you mention a vivarium in relation to a tortoise you get a very negative reply. I'm not really sure why this is? Leopards need the heat and humidity so a vivarium seems like a good idea to me.

I guess I just want some more reassurance that moving him into a viv is the right thing to do...

 

[Zamric]

At 1.5 years old, he's past the Critical mark so heat and humidity is good for him, it's no longer critical. As for a Vivarium for your tortoise, I think it's a fine Idea, and not just because I have one for mine. If you make him a Vivarium, make it as big as you possably can! 3X5 would be the absolute smallest for your tort to spend any lenth of time in.

Heat, Humidity and daily soaks should help bring the "Bumps" under control (but will not reverce it)

 

[NudistApple]

Vivariums are a great idea for a young leopard tortoise! Here is a thread on the matter that I believe you will find very informative; http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Closed-Chambers#axzz1t3uKK7fa

You didn't mention how big your yearling is, but just make sure that the enclosure you choose is sized properly for him, preferably with growing room.

 

[_simon_]

Vivariums are a great idea for a young leopard tortoise! Here is a thread on the matter that I believe you will find very informative; http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Closed-Chambers#axzz1t3uKK7fa

You didn't mention how big your yearling is, but just make sure that the enclosure you choose is sized properly for him, preferably with growing room.

Thank you, I'll have a look at that thread now. "he" has a shell length of 9.5cm and weighs 168g.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Simon:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

May we know appx. where in the world you are?

 

[_simon_]

Hi Simon:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

May we know appx. where in the world you are?

I'm in England, UK.

 

[_simon_]

Here's a picture from today

What size indoor enclosure would people recommend I look at? His current outdoor one is 12' x 6' but the weather here is appalling so I'm not sure how much time he'll be outside this year.

 

[Tom]

There is a lot of old, outdated, incorrect info floating around out there. We have had many discussions about this here. Much of the old info is based on assumptions of what conditions these tortoises need based on a limited view of the above ground temps and conditions from the huge areas where these tortoises come from. The bottom line is that the babies stay very well hidden and no one knows much of anything about what they do in the wild, and therefore what they need in captivity. You can see first hand the results of this incorrect info that you have been given. Since no one knows what the babies do in the wild, what we are left with is what works in captivity and what does not work in captivity. Humidity, hydration warmth and moisture works to keep them smooth and healthy in captivity. I think your vivarium will work great and your leopard is still small enough that it will make a big difference down the road. Humidity will NOT cause shell rot or respiratory issues as long as you keep him warm. I don't have my conversion chart, but I shoot for 80 F as an ambient 24/7. This has worked very well for me for 100's of hatchling leopards and sulcatas. Instead of attempting to simulate the hot dry season above ground temps, I instead attempt to simulate the warm humid rainy season conditions that they would likely experience down on the ground in brush, leaf litter, or in holes in the ground.

Also realize that stopping pyramiding in progress is much harder and takes much longer than preventing pyramiding in the first place.

Sorry to hear you are having a rough time on other forums, I have been hearing some pretty bad stories lately...

 

[NudistApple]

What size indoor enclosure would people recommend I look at? His current outdoor one is 12' x 6' but the weather here is appalling so I'm not sure how much time he'll be outside this year.

I believe that the usual recommendation for 1 adult redfoot tortoise is 1.3m x 2.5m, and they get to be something like 30cm and 6.8kg. That is obviously quite a bit smaller than an adult Leopard, but it is certainly a good place to start. (Excuse my rough maths, I'm not exactly pro at the imperial system, let alone metric)

You don't really have a way of knowing how quickly he will grow, but I imagine it would give you a few years at least.

Beautiful tortoise, by the way! I love his colouring, and even in my short time I've seen shells that were much worse.

 

[_simon_]

Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated. I'll stick to using this forum from now on.

What I'm going to do is get a single Vivexotic MODX36 cube (3'x3'x3') I use these MODX's with some of my other reptiles. Hopefully I can order that next week and then as he grows I can add an extension on to the side making it 6x3x3. I could add another again but I suspect he'll outgrow the 3' width at some point so I'll have a rethink when that happens.

What's the best substrate to be using? I was told sterilised topsoil which is what he's been on for a year now.

This is his 12' x 6' outdoor enclosure at the moment. I've recently changed it and expanded the planting area which is why there's a lot of soil and little growing in it at the moment.

 

[dmmj]

That's a great looking enclosure.

 

[_simon_]

I've ordered one of the 3x3x3's today. Might arrive tomorrow otherwise it'll be next week. I don't know how people feel about the size, he's 9.5cm at the moment and measuring the exact floor plan of his current enclosure he'll actually have an extra square foot. These are modular vivariums though so I can buy an extension as soon as I can afford it rather than waiting until he's bigger if needs be.

 

[Zamric]

I'de love to see pics of these 3x3x3 Modular Vivaiaums! Do they expand in all 4 directions?

 

[_simon_]

Unfortunately they only expand lengthways.
http://www.vivexotic.co.uk/products_modx.html

They're still a great idea though. Means you can expand your viv as your animal grows. I've got a single one for my skink and 2 for my boa (main + extension). The 3' height is also great for viewing purposes and adding height for animals that climb but are not truly arboreal.

 

[Zamric]

Nice! they look easy enough to put together.

 

[_simon_]

yeah, they're a doddle and big enough to get inside!

 

[Tom]

The 3' height will also be good for mounting your lighting and heating INSIDE the enclosure. This will allow you to use much lower wattage bulbs and a lot less electricity.

 

[NudistApple]

Your outdoor enclosure is really lovely! Have you considered adding a heating element to his hid-box, so that he can stay out on cooler days?

To answer your questions from before, topsoil is fine as a substrate for leopards. Cypress mulch and coconute fibre are also very popular. I'm using topsoil, myself. Hoping to grow some eatables right in the vivarium for grazing-at-will.

I think the 3'3x'3' is great too. Several weeks back I was inquiring about a 3'x2' as a starting point for a Leopard tort, and I was advised that it would likely be sufficient for 3-4 years, depending on growth rate. I really love the look of those modular vivariums! I feel like the U.K is way ahead of us in a lot of reptile housing.

 

[_simon_]

For his outside enclosure I will have to plan a very well insulated hide before I even think of putting heating in it. We're coming up to 3 weeks none stop rain now and the temperature has been all over the place. I have an outdoor turtle pond and only seen them out basking a handful of times. I can't see us having a suitable temperature to put him out for at least a month yet. Last summer I seem to remember being colder than average as well. I don't suppose you know the minimum outdoor temperature for putting a leopard out?

His new viv arrived about an hour ago, unfortunately it's going to have to wait as my stepson has damaged his knee in his sleep so we're off to accident and emergency shortly which means we'll probably be there all day if it's as busy as it usually is.

These modular vivs have been around since 2010 for us. Doesn't look like Vivexotic sell outside of the UK which is a shame.

 

[NudistApple]

Fingers crossed for your stepson! I once pinched a nerve cortex in my shoulder/neck while sleeping and woke up in blinding pain. No one likes going to the ER for those things. Or uhm, ever.

If I remember correctly, when basking torts get their body temperature much higher than ambient air temperature. I believe the coolest the leopards & sulcatas can go out in is 18.5-21*C.