I'm wanting to get a Redfoot!

[MaddieLynn]

I'm wanting to get a Redfoot tortoise soon (it will probably be in October-December). I've already done a ton of research and know what they eat, humidity requirements, etc. I'm planning on using the Turtletary guidelines for diet and housing.

I live in Texas, so the climate will be great for the turtle in the summer, but what I'm concerned about is the winter. I know they don't hibernate, but even though it doesn't snow a lot here, it will get too cold for the turtle to live outside. So, here's my biggest question:

What do you Redfoot owners do in the winter? Where do you keep your turtles? What kind of setup? What do you do for humidity and heat?

I also have one more question:

Is it true that Redfoots do not need UVB lights? I've read that in a few places, but in another place I read that this was just a rumor and they DO in fact need the UVB lights.

Besides those 2 questions, I'd love to have any tips that anyone has!

 

[Tropical Torts]

Welcome the forum MaddieLynn!

What size of RF are you looking at buying? If you are interested in a hatchling a large cement mixing tub would be fine for the little guy during the winter. If you are trying to get a larger tortoise than you may have to build a custom made tort table out of treated ply wood to keep in your house or garage. Plans on how to build one can be found at redfoot tortoise.com. More info is need before we can help you. Im sure you will find all the answers you are looking for on this site!

 

[MaddieLynn]

I am interested in buying a hatchling. That way, I can watch it grow up and make sure it gets proper care for the biggest part of its life. Also, the smaller ones seem to be less expensive, so I can spend more money on spoiling it!

Also, I am planning on making an outdoor enclosure for the summer.

 

[HarleyK]

I read turtletary, but it sounds ambiguous to me about the uvb lighting. She mentions that she doesn't use UVB lighting for the first 6 months of a tort baby, so she suggests that she uses it for adults?

 

[movealongmosey]

Welcome! You're going to love your baby red foot! I got mine last year in september, but since it's going to be a hatchling I highly suggest using uvb, because babies do need uvb lighting especially in the winter when they cant go outside. I keep a heat lamp on him during the day, and I use a very low grade heating pad at night, you can buy one at Walgreens or cvs. Make sure the substrate is very damp before putting your tort to bed, and I usually cover the top with a towel to trap moisture. Good luck

Katie

 

[jackrat]

I'm wanting to get a Redfoot tortoise soon (it will probably be in October-December). I've already done a ton of research and know what they eat, humidity requirements, etc. I'm planning on using the Turtletary guidelines for diet and housing.

I live in Texas, so the climate will be great for the turtle in the summer, but what I'm concerned about is the winter. I know they don't hibernate, but even though it doesn't snow a lot here, it will get too cold for the turtle to live outside. So, here's my biggest question:

What do you Redfoot owners do in the winter? Where do you keep your turtles? What kind of setup? What do you do for humidity and heat?

I also have one more question:

Is it true that Redfoots do not need UVB lights? I've read that in a few places, but in another place I read that this was just a rumor and they DO in fact need the UVB lights.

Besides those 2 questions, I'd love to have any tips that anyone has!

Go to turtletary.com and read the care sheets.He knows what he's talking about and his results speak for themselves.You will need to keep a redfoot inside during the winter.UVB's aren't nessessary or appreciated.Redfoots get their D3 from the diet you provide.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I read turtletary, but it sounds ambiguous to me about the uvb lighting. She mentions that she doesn't use UVB lighting for the first 6 months of a tort baby, so she suggests that she uses it for adults?

Harley, Maddie and Katie,

Where did you read where I said no UVB for the first 6 months and then use UVB afterwards? Or I said use UVB ever? Because they hide or are 'out-of-the-sun' MOST of their lives.. how do you expect to get the needed D3 into them?

I did say no animal protein D3 food-supplements for the first 6 months.. and then ONLY Calcium Carbonate [ no D3 ] ONCE a week from then on.

From what I've observed they only are in the sunlight to 'thermo-regulate' their body temps [ which doesn't take long with that dark carapace ].. or they are looking for something to eat which is usually in the early a.m. or just as the shadows from the sunset hit their enclosure outdoors.

Please get your facts straight before giving advice. We are talking about the lives of our redfoots aren't we.. and we don't need to confuse that issue do we?

See here [ as jackrat suggested.. and is in my signature ] -

http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

NERD - aka Turtletary

 

[MaddieLynn]

Harley, Maddie and Katie,

Where did you read where I said no UVB for the first 6 months and then use UVB afterwards? Or I said use UVB ever? Because they hide or are 'out-of-the-sun' MOST of their lives.. how do you expect to get the needed D3 into them?

I did say no animal protein D3 food-supplements for the first 6 months.. and then ONLY Calcium Carbonate [ no D3 ] ONCE a week from then on.

From what I've observed they only are in the sunlight to 'thermo-regulate' their body temps [ which doesn't take long with that dark carapace ].. or they are looking for something to eat which is usually in the early a.m. or just as the shadows from the sunset hit their enclosure outdoors.

Please get your facts straight before giving advice. We are talking about the lives of our redfoots aren't we.. and we don't need to confuse that issue do we?

See here [ as jackrat suggested.. and is in my signature ] -

http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

NERD - aka Turtletary

I never quoted you or your website about UVB at all - I was asking about the use of UVB, since I have read in a few places (your site being one of them) that they don't need a UVB light. However, on a different site, it said that even though they do live in the shade, they DO need UVB. I was (and still am) confused about the subject. So hopefully we can get this all straightened out! (I am planning on using your guidelines, BTW.)

Thanks everyone for chiming in!

 

[Yvonne G]

And...just to set the record straight...Terry, of Turtletary.com, is a "he" not a "she"

 

[movealongmosey]

I only know what I've learned from care sheets, other owners, and longtime breeders of red foots. Maybe I am not the best person to be giving advice, so I apologize.

 

[jackrat]

Redfoots are not a basking tortoise.In the wild,they get the majority of their D3 from their diet.They prefer shady areas or dappled sunlight.I have yet to see one of mine lay in direct sunlight and bask.

 

[HarleyK]

Hey Redfoot this is what got me confused: "no UVB required for the first 6 months .. your option - ( I have yet to use UVB inside.. ever )."

When you say "I have yet to use UVB inside.. ever" are you talking about babies or the adults? So you don't use UVB for babies, but how about adults?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Hey Redfoot this is what got me confused: "no UVB required for the first 6 months .. your option - ( I have yet to use UVB inside.. ever )."

When you say "I have yet to use UVB inside.. ever" are you talking about babies or the adults? So you don't use UVB for babies, but how about adults?

Harley..

"no UVB required for the first 6 months .. your option" means: because there are so many that insist that UVB lights are vital I'm leaving it up to anyone to decide whether they want to spend [ waste ] $$$ on the lights which they never sit under. [ for any length of time anyway ] !

ALL of my redfoots of every age have never seen UVB lights.. they get the D3 from the diet. The diet I provide has calcium and protein from various sources - the source of "animal-protein" I use has some D3 in it........ just so I can say it does [ what a joke - or the needs are miniscule ]. They are outside 7-8 months out of the year.. and that has proven to be adequate.

I hope this doesn't become another debate on D3 needs and sources!

NERD

---

I only know what I've learned from care sheets, other owners, and longtime breeders of red foots. Maybe I am not the best person to be giving advice, so I apologize.

No need to apologize.. just advise from personal experience.

I would NEVER give any advice about Hermann's tortoises for example.. regardless of what my friend that breeds them says......... and if I did quote him I would say exactly who said so. Speaking in 'generalities' is no more than 'rhetoric' that is worthless.

Is there something wrong with showing or asking to show the results of the claims?

NERD

 

[terryo]

There are so many breeders who have different opinions, that a new RF tortoise owner can be left in tears. I know this has happened to me. UVB...no UVB...basking....no basking....the list goes on and on. And...if you go on other RF sites some can be VERY adamant about their care sheets being the best. I will make you want to pull your hair out....I know. Don't give up. I only have one Cherry Head, and am NO expert and am still learning myself. I can only tell you what worked for me for three years, starting when he was 1 month old. Then you just have to make up your own mind, like I did. Good luck.
Go to the top of the page on this site, and pick the appropriate age group of your tort, and follow the care sheet
http://www.redfoots.com/yenclose.htm
They are very simple to follow. Hope this helps you a bit.

 

[Tom]

One thing I'd like to add that might make this a little simpler is that if your keep your redfoot tortoise outside for part of the year, or just part of the day whenever the weather is nice, they are getting all the UV they need, even if they stay in the shade. UV bounces around and reflects into the shadows too. A light meter in the shade in the Texas summer shows more UV than the same light meter in direct sunlight in winter in a Northern state. I read that in a UV study a long time ago.

BTW, just my two cents, but....... there are a lot of conflicting sites and outdated info on tortoise care. It is this way with lots of species, but especially bad with redfoots. There are dozens of pics of redfoots done Terry's (redfootnerd) way on this site and they are all perfect examples of how a tortoise ought to look. Terryo's tortoise, Pio, is a great example. I don't see the "other guys" able to consistently show such perfect results with their "system".

What I'm saying is that Terry K.s way of raising them is proven to work, and work well over and over again. When I get my next redfoot, I will be following Terry K.s' care sheet and then I too will be posting pic after pic of my beautiful, healthy redfoot.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

There are so many breeders who have different opinions, that a new RF tortoise owner can be left in tears. I know this has happened to me. UVB...no UVB...basking....no basking....the list goes on and on. And...if you go on other RF sites some can be VERY adamant about their care sheets being the best. I will make you want to pull your hair out....I know. Don't give up. I only have one Cherry Head, and am NO expert and am still learning myself. I can only tell you what worked for me for three years, starting when he was 1 month old. Then you just have to make up your own mind, like I did. Good luck.
Go to the top of the page on this site, and pick the appropriate age group of your tort, and follow the care sheet
http://www.redfoots.com/yenclose.htm
They are very simple to follow. Hope this helps you a bit.

Thank you Terry!

It doesn't take being an expert.. just keeping it simple and be willing to do what is best for whatever age redfoot you have - which really doesn't change that much regardless of age. Isn't that what you have found Terry?

I have asked, insisted and expected all of the "caresheet" authors to show what their prescribed 'regime' produces year by year from hatchling to 5 years old - none have yet. I've always wondered why.. especially when they are so adamant that theirs is the only and best! (?)

[Un]fortunately redfoot tortoises are very forgiving.. so they can tolerate a lot. And "they" [ caresheet authors ] claim it's not that important to back what 'they' say. Is it any wonder why someone new to these magnificent critters is confused Terry?

How many times have you and I posted pics of our babies and 3 year olds and 5 year olds???

NERD

 

[Madkins007]

Redfoots are not a basking tortoise. In the wild,they get the majority of their D3 from their diet.They prefer shady areas or dappled sunlight.I have yet to see one of mine lay in direct sunlight and bask.

Just to clarify- this is not really true. MOST Red-foots come from savannah and scrub forests, even in the northern range. Most field researchers and most experienced keepers have seen Red-foots bask, much in the same patterns as other tortoises. Few tortoises spend a lot of time out in the open, period. Your mileage may vary based on several factors- latitude, solar intensity, habitat layout, etc.

(Sources: Wikipedia, Vinke and Vetter's "South American Tortoises", etc. Other threads have talked about this as well.)

No one has every shown that Red-foots get most of their D3 from the diet. While it is certainly true they eat animal protein in the wild, most of what they eat are termites, butterflies, etc.- and insects are generally low in D3.

(Sources: "South American Tortoises", Debra Moskovitz's "The Behavior and Ecology of the Two Amazonian Tortoises, Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulata in Northwestern Brazil")

HOWEVER, it is also true that many, many people have raised and bred Red-foots with no UVB, and that no one knows what the UVB or vitamin D needs really are for ANY tortoises, much less Red-foots.

(Sources: Many, including Douglas Mader's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery")

SO... UVB? Dietary vitamin D (D2 or D3) is probably fine, although everything points at natural, unfiltered light being the best option.

Basking? Yes, they bask, but they are also shy and prefer good hide and shape options.

 

[Neohippy]

Redfoots are not a basking tortoise. In the wild,they get the majority of their D3 from their diet.They prefer shady areas or dappled sunlight.I have yet to see one of mine lay in direct sunlight and bask.

Just to clarify- this is not really true. MOST Red-foots come from savannah and scrub forests, even in the northern range. Most field researchers and most experienced keepers have seen Red-foots bask, much in the same patterns as other tortoises. Few tortoises spend a lot of time out in the open, period. Your mileage may vary based on several factors- latitude, solar intensity, habitat layout, etc.

(Sources: Wikipedia, Vinke and Vetter's "South American Tortoises", etc. Other threads have talked about this as well.)

No one has every shown that Red-foots get most of their D3 from the diet. While it is certainly true they eat animal protein in the wild, most of what they eat are termites, butterflies, etc.- and insects are generally low in D3.

(Sources: "South American Tortoises", Debra Moskovitz's "The Behavior and Ecology of the Two Amazonian Tortoises, Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulata in Northwestern Brazil")

HOWEVER, it is also true that many, many people have raised and bred Red-foots with no UVB, and that no one knows what the UVB or vitamin D needs really are for ANY tortoises, much less Red-foots.

(Sources: Many, including Douglas Mader's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery")

SO... UVB? Dietary vitamin D (D2 or D3) is probably fine, although everything points at natural, unfiltered light being the best option.

Basking? Yes, they bask, but they are also shy and prefer good hide and shape options.

Gods, I love your posts. Way to promote research and learning. Breath of fresh air in this forum every time.

Look up this guy's references, always a good read.

 

[Madkins007]

I have asked, insisted and expected all of the "caresheet" authors to show what their prescribed 'regime' produces year by year from hatchling to 5 years old - none have yet. I've always wondered why.. especially when they are so adamant that theirs is the only and best! (?)


NERD

This is pretty easy to answer. It simply does not really 'prove' much. It mostly demonstrates photography skills. It does not really prove that it happened because of a specific diet or care plan. It is evidence, but not proof.

I am also reasonably sure that you a.) did not ask 'all care sheet authors', and b.) 'none have yet'. I'm pretty sure you have seen photos from many of them. Most who write books, like Mike Pingelton (a forum member), have many illustrations of their good-looking torts in their books there for the looking. Of course, others have their own reasons to not respond.

Another thing to point out is that writers, of care sheets or any other 'how to' are not always 'experts' in the subject but are generally researchers and reporters, gathering information from experts and restating it so as to best help new keepers. It is GREAT when someone has great technical expertise AND great writing skills- but that is pretty rare.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Redfoots are not a basking tortoise. In the wild,they get the majority of their D3 from their diet.They prefer shady areas or dappled sunlight.I have yet to see one of mine lay in direct sunlight and bask.

Just to clarify- this is not really true. MOST Red-foots come from savannah and scrub forests, even in the northern range. Most field researchers and most experienced keepers have seen Red-foots bask, much in the same patterns as other tortoises. Few tortoises spend a lot of time out in the open, period. Your mileage may vary based on several factors- latitude, solar intensity, habitat layout, etc.

(Sources: Wikipedia, Vinke and Vetter's "South American Tortoises", etc. Other threads have talked about this as well.)

No one has every shown that Red-foots get most of their D3 from the diet. While it is certainly true they eat animal protein in the wild, most of what they eat are termites, butterflies, etc.- and insects are generally low in D3.

(Sources: "South American Tortoises", Debra Moskovitz's "The Behavior and Ecology of the Two Amazonian Tortoises, Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulata in Northwestern Brazil")

HOWEVER, it is also true that many, many people have raised and bred Red-foots with no UVB, and that no one knows what the UVB or vitamin D needs really are for ANY tortoises, much less Red-foots.

(Sources: Many, including Douglas Mader's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery")

SO... UVB? Dietary vitamin D (D2 or D3) is probably fine, although everything points at natural, unfiltered light being the best option.

Basking? Yes, they bask, but they are also shy and prefer good hide and shape options.

Mark just exactly what is the point you are trying to make here? How many redfoot tortoises do you [ and the greastest majority of anyone that would read anything said on this forum ] personally have that are breeding adult size that you personally have observed 'basking' = laying out in the sun for hours on end soaking up UVB to balance the needs they don't get from their diet? Does it ever occur to anybody that this doesn't exist? These "researchers" are not the "all-knowing" only-experienced humans on the planet.. I don't care how many decades and thousands of animals they have been doing what they do and have observed!

Let's bring this deal HOME to where 99.9% of us live and maintain these creatures...... HUH???

Mark are you talking out of both sides of your mouth or referencing those that do... first they bask out in the open and then "Few tortoises spend a lot of time out in the open, period." - was that a typo? And now we [ or in particular jackrat that is in south Atkansas ] here in the Northern hemisphere have a "better" atmosphere than where they originate or we feed them better so they don't have to do any other of these things that you "quote/have researched" others saying redfoots do and need?!

And you are encoraged to not say anything about "photography skills". Taking pictures of well formed redfoots as a result of "proper care regimes" has absolutely nothing to do with "photography skills".. you don't hear me asking about yours or anyone elses do you?

And "evidence doesn't prove anything"? Now "a picture is worth a thousand words" doesn't mean anything either??? ( does it? )

And worst of all.. all of this "research" is nothing more than what anyone willing to spend the time can accomplish! And anyone with even a few years [ or more? ] of 'hands-on' experience would find a great deal of.. ambiguous at best!

So none of these things that I have legimately asked about, stated and/or have questioned are not worth considering or studying or doing any 'scientific research' on. WHY???

Are my questions too challenging.. or might prove these "LONG-TERM" scientist/authors in error where they might have to admit they have been wrong or mis-informed or created their own "herp-theology" so they can have recognition or sell copy. How much of this info is outdated/been observed as "just not true"?

A legimate and objective response or answer will be most appreciated Mark. You have challenged too many too long.. with how much "hands-on" personal experience yourself.

I am NOT discounting the need and value of "researching" info. I DO encourage recent sound evidence and photos from those that have experience with how to.. and how it relates to in our back-yard.


Remember it only takes money to be published Mark.. in fact in some caes when someone IS published they might even get paid for it.

Nothing stated above is in anyway a direct assault on anyone. The above are my sincere concerns and are in no way related to TortoiseForum.org. directly or indirectly.

NERD